Exactly. I'll never understand how some criticize the 92s as being "too big" or "too thick to conceal" as a knock against the guns. They were absolutely not designed as a concealed pistol, but a full-size combat handgun for uniformed police and military forces. Hideability was never a design factor.
Beretta 92fs vs Taurus PT92 af
- Thread starter Okie21
- Start date
Exactly. I'll never understand how some criticize the 92s as being "too big" or "too thick to conceal" as a knock against the guns. They were absolutely not designed as a concealed pistol, but a full-size combat handgun for uniformed police and military forces. Hideability was never a design factor.
ColbyBruce
Member
Well at the time there were actually only a handful of slide failures . It is my recollection that the issue with the slide failures.... were due to a small batch of slides ( bad (?) metallurgy in early guns produced in Italy ) combined with the use of thousands of rounds of "hot" NATO sub-machinegun ammo (in training) in the guns that failed.. The F became the FS and no more failures occurred.
Some later issues in the "Sandbox" were traced to low bidder Checkmate magazines.
The updated locking blocks came years later....... with continual updating Beretta is now on a Gen 3 locking block.
In case you haven't noticed the 226 currently produced is at Gen 3 ( with changes to the hammer and grips along with milled slides vs the old folded slides) and the Glock is up to a Gen 5. gun.
As to the M-11 (Sig 228/229) was at time labeled a political move to appease someone; Sig or the Germans...... there is a Beretta Compact about the same size..... with 13+1 using a majority of the same parts.
Didn't the Coast Guard in it's "law enforcement role" as part of Homeland Security go to the .40S&W with hollowpoint ammo??????.
IMHO the current Beretta Centurion G-model(decocker only) with it's 4.2 inch upper are what the M9 should have been....
Radius-ed backstrap (late 90s IIRC) and thin G-10 grips fix the grip issues. .......current factory magazines are 17 rounds with Mec-gar making a really good flush fit 18 round mag.
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Funny how once a 'rumor" or "bad press" takes hold it never seems to go away........... when I first got into shooting handguns in the 70s "word on the street/Gun Rags" was that the S&W Model 39 was badly flawed and/or junk..... with the extractors breaking right and left....... and the 9mm ("115gr Silver Tip) wouldn't stop a raging ..... chipmunk!!!!!
The 39-2 today has an almost cult following and the 124gr BPHP is still around and while not the latest and greatest 9mm will hit and expand.
The 39-2 today has an almost cult following and the 124gr BPHP is still around and while not the latest and greatest 9mm will hit and expand.
Gripgrabber
US Veteran
Hello, I currently have two Taurus, a pt92 and a pt96, only because of the frame mounted safety and decocker. I never got used to the slide mounted beretta safety.
Semper paratus
Semper paratus
Back in the 1990s, I was shooting 1911-patterned guns a lot, and the Taurus frame-mounted safety/decocker was a no brainer. My thoughts: 1) the fit and finish on the Taurus is fine, but the Beretta fit and finish is fiiine, if you catch my meaning. 2) The factory magazines are inferior, but Mec-Gar makes after-market 18-round mags that are of the typical excellent Mec-Gar quality that are around $25 or less. 3) The newer PT 92 pistols have a rail on the dust cover, but they will also have an internal lock, if that matters to you. 4) I don't know about the new ones, but my PT 92 has a plastic rear sight, and the dovetail in the slide is not the same as the Beretta. 4) My PT 92 has worked 100% flawlessly for well over 4,000 rounds now, including a few hundred rounds of HOT Corbon +P. So there's that.
On its own merits, the Taurus PT92 is a great gun for the money. And so is the Beretta. They are comparable in many respects, but they are completely different guns these days. It's hard to go wrong with either one, but if you like your Beretta, get a Beretta. By the same token, if you don't, don't. The Taurus is not a Beretta, and vice versa.
On its own merits, the Taurus PT92 is a great gun for the money. And so is the Beretta. They are comparable in many respects, but they are completely different guns these days. It's hard to go wrong with either one, but if you like your Beretta, get a Beretta. By the same token, if you don't, don't. The Taurus is not a Beretta, and vice versa.
TomkinsSP
Member
May I ask one pertinent question.
While it has often been said (by persons selling a Taurus) that a Taurus is "just as good as a Beretta";
has any person selling a Beretta ever said "it's just as good as a Taurus"?
While it has often been said (by persons selling a Taurus) that a Taurus is "just as good as a Beretta";
has any person selling a Beretta ever said "it's just as good as a Taurus"?
TomkinsSP
Member
I have owned several Tauraii. They are not junk. The ones I owned (855, 605, 85, 94s in .22LR, .17HMR, .17 HM2, PT25) were fully functional, they lacked the fit and especially finish of a Smith. I can understand people with budgetary constraints buying Taurus, Rossi, Charter products. They work. But nobody on this side of a Mental Institiution can honestly say they are "the same as".
ColbyBruce
Member
"But nobody on this side of a Mental Institiution can honestly say they are "the same as"."
Just to clarify, since no one else asked, are you inside or outside the wire?
Just to clarify, since no one else asked, are you inside or outside the wire?
LOL Lets ramp it up a bit as we move to page 2
Seeing as how no one's arguments/posts seem to be changing any minds;
First see my post #8 about the Taurus guns being built under licence from Beretta . Probably with lower labor costs. To paraphrase Bush 43 the Taurus guns are in effect "Brothers by another mother" to the Beretta 92.
Now to Ramp it up
are Italian made Beretta's "better" than American made Berettas?
Are the Maryland guns better than the Tenn. guns???
Seeing as how no one's arguments/posts seem to be changing any minds;
First see my post #8 about the Taurus guns being built under licence from Beretta . Probably with lower labor costs. To paraphrase Bush 43 the Taurus guns are in effect "Brothers by another mother" to the Beretta 92.
Now to Ramp it up
are Italian made Beretta's "better" than American made Berettas?Are the Maryland guns better than the Tenn. guns???
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MyDads38
Member
I've never owned a Taurus, but my buddy had the Taurus 92 in 40 S&W. Gun would not run, even after polishing of feed ramp, etc. The 40 S&W flat point bullet would feed from the mag and jam at the bottom of the feed ramp. He owned it less than a month before trading it off. He owns a 92fs in 9mm and it has been flawless. Not exactly apples to apples because of caliber. And if he could run RN bullets through the 40, it may have worked. Just my observation....
TomkinsSP
Member
ColbyBruce
I used to work the World's largest loony bin.
Now I own my own much smaller and quieter one;-)
I used to work the World's largest loony bin.
Now I own my own much smaller and quieter one;-)
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03hemi
Member
- Joined
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Never intended it to be a "knock" on the gun, they're great guns, just overkill in size for the round.
ColbyBruce
Member
"are Italian made Beretta's "better" than American made Berettas?"
I have owned a Beretta 92f and three 92fs pistols, two made in Italy and two made in the USA. While I personally shot all four of them about the same I had a neighbor who did shoot the two Italian guns much better. He pointed it out to me, while trying to buy the gun in the photo I posted in this thread.
By much better, I mean he could nearly cut his groups in half, with my guns and his own two guns. Shortly before he retired and moved to Florida in 2015 he swapped his USA made 92fs and a Benjamin for a Italian made 92fs.
I have owned a Beretta 92f and three 92fs pistols, two made in Italy and two made in the USA. While I personally shot all four of them about the same I had a neighbor who did shoot the two Italian guns much better. He pointed it out to me, while trying to buy the gun in the photo I posted in this thread.
By much better, I mean he could nearly cut his groups in half, with my guns and his own two guns. Shortly before he retired and moved to Florida in 2015 he swapped his USA made 92fs and a Benjamin for a Italian made 92fs.
jmace57
Member
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Well, I guess I'll tell my story and opinion too...
I bought a Beretta 92FS from a sheriff's sale. Pictures were awful. Case number on the side turned people off. Turned out someone had put a piece of tape and written on the tape. Described as fair condition. Got it CHEAP.
When I cleaned it up, it turned out to be almost perfect. Put some nice grips on it.
Ended up buying a Taurus PT-92 soon after. It was every bit as reliable as the Beretta.
In one of my periodic purges, I ended up getting rid of the Taurus and keeping the Beretta.
To be complete though, I bought a Beretta 84 and a Taurus PT58 (clone), and the PT58 was the least accurate pistol I have ever shot.
I bought a Beretta 92FS from a sheriff's sale. Pictures were awful. Case number on the side turned people off. Turned out someone had put a piece of tape and written on the tape. Described as fair condition. Got it CHEAP.
When I cleaned it up, it turned out to be almost perfect. Put some nice grips on it.
Ended up buying a Taurus PT-92 soon after. It was every bit as reliable as the Beretta.
In one of my periodic purges, I ended up getting rid of the Taurus and keeping the Beretta.
To be complete though, I bought a Beretta 84 and a Taurus PT58 (clone), and the PT58 was the least accurate pistol I have ever shot.
scoobysnacker
Member
My opinion, get the Beretta.
I'm sure the Taurus is a good gun. I have CZ 75's, I would get one over an EAA Witness (a gun that looks just like the CZ).
Big Taurus claim to fame is the frame safety. The slide safety doesn't bother me, as I own S&W's, other Beretta's, and some Makarov-style guns, all with slide safeties. BTW, I also have guns with Sig-style decock only, as well as 1911/CZ style frame safety. If you enjoy and get accustomed to the gun, you will have zero trouble handling any of them.
Too much gets made of size and control placement, in my opinion. Most of us merely enjoy a finely made handgun.
I'm sure the Taurus is a good gun. I have CZ 75's, I would get one over an EAA Witness (a gun that looks just like the CZ).
Big Taurus claim to fame is the frame safety. The slide safety doesn't bother me, as I own S&W's, other Beretta's, and some Makarov-style guns, all with slide safeties. BTW, I also have guns with Sig-style decock only, as well as 1911/CZ style frame safety. If you enjoy and get accustomed to the gun, you will have zero trouble handling any of them.
Too much gets made of size and control placement, in my opinion. Most of us merely enjoy a finely made handgun.
Texas Star
US Veteran
Keep in mind that Taurus bought a BERETTA factory that was built in Brazil to fulfill Brazilian military contracts. I think the Brazilians insisted that the plant be located there. It also made the .25 guns, like the M-950. Occasionally, one of those turns up in the USA. I think I've seen them marked in English, not in Portuguese, so some US sales must have happened. No idea who imported those. Or, how, as they were made post GCA 68 and would be too small for legal importation. May have been intended for South African sales?
I think the Brazilian army guns were made as and marked as, Berettas, probably a M-92S variant. If Ray in Rio ses this, he may be able to comment.
No Taurus-marked guns were made until AFTER Beretta filled its Brazilian contracts and sold the factory. Did Taurus itself later get Brazilian military or police contracts? Don't know. Good question. I think they made or licensed some Chilean contract guns marked as made in Chile. And I think I recall some marked as made in or issued in Peru, too.
I think the Brazilian army guns were made as and marked as, Berettas, probably a M-92S variant. If Ray in Rio ses this, he may be able to comment.
No Taurus-marked guns were made until AFTER Beretta filled its Brazilian contracts and sold the factory. Did Taurus itself later get Brazilian military or police contracts? Don't know. Good question. I think they made or licensed some Chilean contract guns marked as made in Chile. And I think I recall some marked as made in or issued in Peru, too.
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So, I went and checked out the PT92 last week. It had very minimal wear, didn't look like it had much use. Here's what I thought of it -
DA/SA trigger pulls felt just like my Beretta 92S.
The slide did not have the same smooth action as the Beretta, like someone stated here previously. It was nice, though.
The frame mounted safety/decocker is so much better being there and not on the slide. But the lever was pretty stiff, especially the decocker. It take some effort to engage.
Overall, I was very impressed. So much so, that I couldn't resist. He came down a little on the price. $300 OTD, so I HAD to take it home.
It had quite a bit of heavy grease in it. Almost like the stuff that comes in a new gun. I gave it a thorough cleaning and lubed it up. Then I took it to the range a few days later. I put 400 rounds thru it. 300 Fed American Eagle 124gr, 50 cheap Fed from Walmart 115gr, 50 Fed HST 147gr. I was very happy with it. Compared to the 92S, the taller 3 dot sights were a big improvement.
I'm not a fan of that wide grip, so I ordered G10 grips from Hogue. I emailed them and they said their G10's were a bit thinner than stock. Finding thin grips for a PT92 is difficult as they are slightly different than the Berreta. However, I found that my 92S G10 grips could fit with a little trimming to accommodate the frame mounted safety. And the screw holes would have to be opened up a bit since they don't quite line up. So if a person wanted a larger variety, you could order grips for a Beretta if you don't mind a little work.
I also found Mec Gar 18 round mags for around $22. So those will be ordered as well.
I thank all of you for the feedback. I think I'll be happy with the Taurus.
Sent from my Moto G (5S) Plus using Tapatalk
DA/SA trigger pulls felt just like my Beretta 92S.
The slide did not have the same smooth action as the Beretta, like someone stated here previously. It was nice, though.
The frame mounted safety/decocker is so much better being there and not on the slide. But the lever was pretty stiff, especially the decocker. It take some effort to engage.
Overall, I was very impressed. So much so, that I couldn't resist. He came down a little on the price. $300 OTD, so I HAD to take it home.
It had quite a bit of heavy grease in it. Almost like the stuff that comes in a new gun. I gave it a thorough cleaning and lubed it up. Then I took it to the range a few days later. I put 400 rounds thru it. 300 Fed American Eagle 124gr, 50 cheap Fed from Walmart 115gr, 50 Fed HST 147gr. I was very happy with it. Compared to the 92S, the taller 3 dot sights were a big improvement.
I'm not a fan of that wide grip, so I ordered G10 grips from Hogue. I emailed them and they said their G10's were a bit thinner than stock. Finding thin grips for a PT92 is difficult as they are slightly different than the Berreta. However, I found that my 92S G10 grips could fit with a little trimming to accommodate the frame mounted safety. And the screw holes would have to be opened up a bit since they don't quite line up. So if a person wanted a larger variety, you could order grips for a Beretta if you don't mind a little work.
I also found Mec Gar 18 round mags for around $22. So those will be ordered as well.
I thank all of you for the feedback. I think I'll be happy with the Taurus.
Sent from my Moto G (5S) Plus using Tapatalk
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JaPes
Member
At $300 OTD I think you did good. I think that after a good clean and lube, much of the stiffness will go away. Congrats!
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