Best .357 load for woods carry in Colorado

[Marshal Tom]

Hi,

I have a 3" 66, a 3" 686 CS-1 and a .357 Mtn Gun among others. I often carry one of them when up in the high country of western Colorado. What do you think is the best load. I carry it for bad guys and for bear although I have yet to see one. I have been carrying a 180 gr. Winchester Partition Gold. Is that too much for my 3" 66?

T

 

[jimmyj]

Hi:
With the "BIG" bears and mountain lions, I would not feel comfortable with anything less that a RPG and a very fast car.
Jimmy (afraidy wimp)

 

[Marshal Tom]

jimmyj,

I have yet to see a bear up on the Grand Mesa although they are up there in abundance. I just had a Mtn Loin in my back yard in the last few days but they are not up there, to my knowledge.

T

 

[BreakerDan]

I often carry a 4" Model 28 .357.
I like to load a 173gr Semi Wad to 1200 fps
from it. That sort of handload would be good for your purposes. If you go with a factory load, I would pick either the .357 Remington 158 SWC, Buffalo Bore or the 180 gr Federal Cast Core.

I know for a fact that my handload will penetrate deeply enough for bear. It will go over 2 feet in a feral hog- butt to shoulder.
Overall, I would go with a semi wadcutter or JSP
weighing no less than 158 grains.

 

[1x2]

Unless you shoot a black bear in the eye with that thing, it's my opinion that you won't impress it. My meager research indicates that a .429" 240gr bullet @ ~1300+ fps is called for, at minimum, to turn a black bear. A mountain lion, OTOH, will likely fall for your .357.

I realize that I did not address your question, with good reason.

JMHO,
1x2

 

[Erich]

Wow, our NM blackies must not have read that research. I've got a friend up in the east mountains who kills his (treed by dogs - perhaps not the same thing as charging, but let's not confuse the overgrown-raccoon blackies with the Terminator griz

) all the time with a SP-101 and whatever 158-grain JHP .357 he's got in there.

(Bear lard really IS the thing for baking, BTW, but make sure it's not a "garbage bear.")

I carry a handload that uses a max charge of Blue Dot to throw a 180-grain TVB hardcast at 1230 fps from my 3" 65-5. And I feel quite convinced that it will adequately penetrate any animal in the state of New Mexico at defensive distances, and stop said animal given proper shot placement (which is always the thing, isn't it?).

Marshal Tom, I believe you're carrying a wonderful load for this purpose. Don't worry about the heavy bullet load in the K-frame (as long as you keep it clean - lead in any forcing cone can give you problems) - the forcing cone damage you may have read about was linked to 125-grainers.

And, speaking of shot-placement, you don't shoot bears in the eye . . .

 

[Erich]

Huh. Looks like this thread got edited or partially jostled during the move. I'd like to make sure that 1x2 knows that I intended my lighthearted tone in my reply above to be in the spirit of good-natured ribbing among friends.

 

[DJINCO]

Tom,

No offense, and I am sure that a .357 with a stout load will dispatch a two or four legged varmit; but I ask what about follow up? The first round of a 180gr out of a model 66 is going to hurt.

I would recommend a 44mag. Even a 240 gr lead RN or SWC moving at 1000fps is going to break bones (which is what you want when faced with a cougar) but the recoil will allow you to have a good follow up second through sixth shot.

I carry a 629 Compact Carry 3" ported 44 mag.

No, not as light as my J Frame model 60, but the 44Mag is good to go.

If you don't reload, you could use a 44 Special factory load.

Cheers, Doug

 

[singleshot1891]

The first time I went elk hunting in Colorado back about '90 or '91, I was just sure that I needed a handgun for bear protection. The biggest one I owned at the time was a Model 19. I bought a couple of boxes of Winchester BLACK TALON 180 gr. loads for that purpose. I never got the opportunity to test them on bear (thankfully). I remember complaining to my Dad about having to take the 'puny' .357 into bear country. I'll always remember his reply : "It's a helluva lot better than throwing rocks at a bear ".

 

[Smith357]

When I lived in Vail CO I carried a 6" Blackhawk loaded with 180 grain JHP over 15+ grains of 4227. The book said it pushed 1250fps from a 6" barrel and even twith the mass of the Blackhawk it kicked like a mule. It showed all the signs of pushing the pressures to the limit, but with Ruger over over building thier guns I did not worry too much about it blowing up. I don't think I would even consider firing such a load from any K frame and would not make a habit of it from an N frame.

 

[Erich]

Yeah, there are much better powders than 4227 for the 180-gr .357s. Lil' Gun and - believe it or not - Blue Dot (use Alliant's currently published max data for a great load, the one that I carry in my 3" gun).

I find the 180-grainers stout out of a K-frame, but completely controllable. We're not talking .500 Linebaugh here by any means.

 

[Bdouthet]

Federal loads the barnes 140gr hp solid copper 357mag i use in my66 2 1/2 barrel thats a hard core killer and in m19 4in Win black talon 180gr

I would stay away from med to high speed lead bullets.

 

[Alk8944]

Specifically in Colorado? I will have to think about that awhile.

OK. I strongly suspect the same ammunition that is best in New Mexico, Utah, Wyoming and Montana will probably work just as well in Colorado.

My preference would be a hard, cast bullet over jacketed as the extra velocity and lack of expansion will contribute to deeper and straighter penetration. The Federal 180 Cast-Cor would be my second choice, after my own handloads. First choice, if limited to factory ammunition, would be this Federal load. And it wouldn't be out of a 3" barrel if I had a choice, it gives up too much velocity!

 

[Bdouthet]

I would stay away from the lead bullets that travel more than 1000ft-per-sec because of leading in the K frame can led to a crack in the Force cone.

The Barnes solid copper hp is all you need and you can get the Federal loaded factory round or buy the Barnes bullet and load it to the max. That will take care of 98% of the Bear and all the mountain lion in Colorado, New Mexico, and Utah area.

If you're going north you need a more powerful round like 44mag otherwise you piss off northern Brown/grizzly bear.

 

[jkc]

Bears are robust and need stout bullets with lots of energy to reliably kill them, right now. I wouldn't consider myself adequately armed for black bear with any .357 load. Mountain lions seem to be more fragile, but I've got one hanging on my wall that soaked up two hits with a Nosler Partition 180 grain at about 2,600 fps, and wasn't down for the count, requiring a coup de grace from my hunting partner's .308. Bayed lions are routinely dispatched with handgun caliber lung shots, but that's fish-in-a-barrel shooting, not defending yourself against an attack. I advise trading up to a .44 Mag or bigger.

 

[Bdouthet]

Bears are robust and need stout bullets with lots of energy to reliably kill them, right now. I wouldn't consider myself adequately armed for black bear with any .357 load. Mountain lions seem to be more fragile, but I've got one hanging on my wall that soaked up two hits with a Nosler Partition 180 grain at about 2,600 fps, and wasn't down for the count, requiring a coup de grace from my hunting partner's .308. Bayed lions are routinely dispatched with handgun caliber lung shots, but that's fish-in-a-barrel shooting, not defending yourself against an attack. I advise trading up to a .44 Mag or bigger.

over the years in Colorado I have seen cops having to kill a bear with 357mag one time two shots 158gr semi jhp and the other one shot with win 180gr black talon. you do not need a 44 to kill are small 200-400lbs bears in Colorado.

 

[30-30remchester]

I live deep in bear country and have Colorado black bears on my porch regularly in the summer months. I have never shot a bear with anything but a rifle so have no experence, however I know a lion guide who carries a Smith & Wesson model 19. I myself use a 6" 19 as my primary "toting" gun. I study terminal ballistics and from all reports I have read, the hollow point can and have failed to penatrate a bears skull. According to an Alaskan bear guide, no hollow points can be counted on. I load mine alternately with 180 grain hard cast Buffalo Bore and 125 grain Buffalo Bore hollow points. I also live deep in lion country. Two legged predators live here as well. If just one load I would go with the 180 hard cast.

 

[Bdouthet]

I live deep in bear country and have Colorado black bears on my porch regularly in the summer months. I have never shot a bear with anything but a rifle so have no experence, however I know a lion guide who carries a Smith & Wesson model 19. I myself use a 6" 19 as my primary "toting" gun. I study terminal ballistics and from all reports I have read, the hollow point can and have failed to penatrate a bears skull. According to an Alaskan bear guide, no hollow points can be counted on. I load mine alternately with 180 grain hard cast Buffalo Bore and 125 grain Buffalo Bore hollow points. I also live deep in lion country. Two legged predators live here as well. If just one load I would go with the 180 hard cast.

Witch bear skulls are we talking about the small black bear of Colorado
The biger Black bear of northern US
or some of the biggest Black bear of Alaska
or the northern Brown and Alaskan Blown/grizzly bear


Did your terminal ballistics include Solid copper HP's, and the Win talons? If so where can I finded this info?

Both your round are good 357 mag rounds, buth your using a m19 beware the top reseasons for the force cone cracking is to many125gr HV and the leading of cast bullet.

Thanks for the info

 

[Jst1mr]

First off - I lived in Delta for a few years at the base of the Grand Mesa - exquisitely beautiful country and I love the Grand Mesa and the Uncompahgre plateau.

Second: Of course there is always something bigger and better, but your .357 is fine. We do hand-to-paw combat with big black bears (up to 600+ pounds) up here and often wade into the hound and bear scrum (the big ones don't tree)to kill the bear with a handgun. .357 works just fine - we use CorBon 180gr BCSP (bonded core soft point) that achieves 1200+ fps out of a 4" revolver barrel.

There is no handgun in the world that is good medicine for a charging, lathered up bear. That's why they make 12 gauge shotguns, 45-70's, .450 Marlins, etc.

 

[oldgun]

Buffalo Bore makes a 180 gr. "Heavy .357 Mag". It will do the job. You can count on it. I pack the 686 4" on the mule trips or whenever on or off the trail. They also make 170, 158, and 125 gr. JHC.

Have fun and be safe.

Oldgun