Best use for some .429" Norma .44 JHPs in .432" throat guns?

[teletech]

I bought hundreds of 200gr JHPs after I had initial tests showing poor accuracy with some cast bullets and before I measured my bores and throats and discovering they were .432" or so. The bores are also... let's be kind and call them somewhat generous.
So, I don't expect great accuracy out of these and am slightly concerned about flame-cutting, but I also don't want to turn away from the investment. Thoughts?
I was thinking they would do better near max loadings as they might satisfactorily obturate.
I can of course special-order oversize bullets and while that's mostly fine for the .44Spl loadings, for the full-house .44mag loadings I'm not crazy about plain cast in terms of leading.

 

[BigMuddy]

Try shooting them. I had a M25-5 with huge cylinder throats. My .454 lead bullets shot patterns instead of groups. I had some standard pressure loads assembled with Hornady XTP's. Expected them to be a complete joke. They defied everything I "know" and shot great. Sometimes there's just no explanation.

Dan

 

[ironhead7544]

IME, jacketed bullets are less sensitive to throat size. Load some up and try them.

My 1894 Marlin Cowboy in 44 Magnum needs .433 bullets for cast but .429 and .430 jacketed shoot fine.

Matt's Bullets and Montana Bullet Works has oversized gas check bullets. Roze Distribution lists .431 jacketed 44 bullets.

 

[teletech]

IME, jacketed bullets are less sensitive to throat size. Load some up and try them.

Matt's Bullets and Montana Bullet Works has oversized gas check bullets. Roze Distribution lists .431 jacketed 44 bullets.

Fair enough, I'll roll the dice and pick a powder to try out. Worst case I'll get expensive blaster ammo I suppose and still vastly cheaper than factory ammo, so there's that.

Thanks for the tip on Roze Distribution, sadly they are out of .44s for the moment. They are out of about everything from what I saw in fact, but things are like that these days.

 

[stansdds]

Lead bullets are the big problem with oversized cylinder throats, jacketed bullets should be fine.

 

[Forrest r]

Actually, oversized throats are extremely common. S&W used to put .431" throats in the 29-2's/3's and their 624's. I'm sure they did in other 44cal revolvers, I can only name the one's I've owned and reloaded for.

Ruger still oversize's their cylinder holes for their 44cal firearms to this day.

Both did (ruger still does) it to reduce the effects of the short start pressures of extremely hot loads.

As far as accuracy goes, you'll need a load that has a high enough short start pressure to bump the bullet up in diameter to be able to align itself in the leade of the throat cut in the cylinder holes. A cut-a-way of a cylinder that was taken to show how seating depths of a bullet can and will affect accuracy. The top round has an oal of the bullet makers recommended/tested oal. The bottom round has a longer oal aligning the nose of the bullet in the leade increasing accuracy.

Personally I never could understand the whole can't use cast bullet in the 44mag thing. Been doing so for 40+ years in 15/20? different 44cal firearms over the decades.

The common use of coated bullets in the last 8 years or so has made it extremely easy for shooters of cast/lead bullets to use without fear of leading. Don't know how fast you think you can push/run a cast bullet in a 44mag. It won't be fast enough or have enough pressure to affect a cast/coated bullet.

 

[GF1]

Granted, my sample size is only one, but I put upward of 15,000 rounds of pure linotype lead bullets through a Model 29-2 (with 6 1/2" barrel) in the late '70s. My load was Elmer's old load of 22 gr/2400, standard primer, 250 gr Lyman #429421. It was shockingly accurate until it became loose at about the 15,000 round mark. I never had an issue with leading, and the throats were .432" and I sized those bullets to .430". I draw no conclusions, just state my experience.

 

[Forrest r]

Several years ago I was having a discussion with a member on another website about cast 44cal bullet and compression of those cast bullets. He sent me this photo of bullets he recovered from the berm. If you look closely you can clearly see the lube grooves have different amounts of compression. This is caused by the difference in pressures of the different powders/loads tested.

A 210gr 8/9bhn hollow pointed hollow based swc seated in a 44spl case.

The load was a 18,000psi+/1000fps+ out of a 2 1/2" bbl'd snub-nosed 44spl revolver. A side view of that expanded hp pictured above. As you can see the hp expanded. The hb expanded also after leaving the bbl.

Ideally you want a cast/lead bullet no more than 1/1000th's less than your cylinder diameters. You also want your lead bullets alloy soft enough to expand under the pressure of the load being used.

Typically cast bullets lead firearms because they are too hard for the load being used. Or too small in diameter.

 

[teletech]

So, moving on...
Well, loading and shooting some of those .429"s clarified that I need not waste any more primers or powder pushing them. Group sizes were 50% larger than the average for .430" lead and a full 100% larger than the best load so far.

 

[6GUNSONLY]

Sell or trade them. Someone will want them, in this day of scarcity.

 

[M29since14]

Well, leading is, as has been said, not a problem in the older S&W .44 Magnums if your cast bullets are properly sized. But getting back to your problem with the Norma bullets, maybe you need a newer S&W with the smaller exit bores?

 

[teletech]

Well, leading is, as has been said, not a problem in the older S&W .44 Magnums if your cast bullets are properly sized. But getting back to your problem with the Norma bullets, maybe you need a newer S&W with the smaller exit bores?

I do like your thought process in terms of it's always good to have another way to justify a purchase. Sadly, I tried them in a pretty new gun as well (this century) with similar results. Besides, for logistic reasons I'd really rather not have one .44 that needs large bullets and another that needs small bullets.

No, it's time to sell/trade those bullets and move on in other directions. If lead bullets work fine than I'll be happy to save the money I would have been spending on JHPs.