Best way to carry a 4 inch K-frame revolver?
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Unless you're particularly long torso-ed and short-legged, I don't see an improvement in a shoulder rig over a strong side pancake-style holster.
Why not carry a snubby?
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A 4" K or L frame is at the extreme limit to carry in an IWB holster. I recommend a Spark VM2 for function and comfort. You will have to order one from Sparks, unless you can find one used. I have one for a 3" 686, which is quite comfortable and doesn't grip the cylinder too hard (due to a steel insert).
Any pancake holster will work well for OWB. Avoid high-rise holsters. The tend to flop and not hold the butt tight to your side, and you need to be something of a contortionist to draw from one. Two-slot holsters work best for revolvers, as the quick-snap versions grip the cylinder too tightly. Good manufacturers to consider include Grizzle and Alessi.
Women often find it more comfortable to carry in a cross draw OWB holster.
Any pancake holster will work well for OWB. Avoid high-rise holsters. The tend to flop and not hold the butt tight to your side, and you need to be something of a contortionist to draw from one. Two-slot holsters work best for revolvers, as the quick-snap versions grip the cylinder too tightly. Good manufacturers to consider include Grizzle and Alessi.
Women often find it more comfortable to carry in a cross draw OWB holster.
I've decided that a 38 snubby is wrong for me, because the recoil of the .38 special +p is too much out of a 2 inch barrel, plus I wouldn't be getting true defensive .38 ballistics. Also nothing beats that sweet K frame trigger.
I've decided that inch .38 special +p is to much for me to handle well enough for me to train enough to get good with it. Plus I wouldn't be getting real 38 ballistics. I could get a 3 inch model 60, but with those dimensions, the advantages of a snubby are kinda lost.
There's much to ballistics beyond barrel length; what matters most is matching the right round with the right gun -- do that and ballistics are attended to.
Some think that more barrel length and more "boom" will make for a defensively superior round. Not so. An example: many shooters presume more velocity is automatically better -- it isn't; the right velocity for a particular bullet is what matters. Not enough and you won't get reliable expansion, true, but too much velocity and you expand too soon and fail to adequately penetrate.
So you can get true defensive .38 ballistics from a variety of barrel lengths, provided the defensive round is well chosen.
Is it possible that when you say the .38+P recoils too much out of a 2" barrel that you mean from a J-frame 2"? Each person's hand has differences in felt recoil, but to me the heft of the K's frame swallows the majority of the recoil, and the barrel length is secondary; I don't feel that much difference between a 2", 3" or 4" inch K-frame until you get to the heavy-barreled 4". But yes, a 2" J-frame is a different thing altogether, recoil-wise.
If we are in fact confusing snubby J and K-frames, that would also explain why you say you're not interested in a .38 snubby because you don't want to miss out on the sweet K-frame triggers -- it's the same trigger on any K-frame regardless of barrel length; you wouldn't miss out on it whichever length you chose within the K-frame family, 2" and up.
If you're thinking of a shoulder rig, I'll presume you're planning on concealed carry. Bottom line is I think you'll find a 4" K-frame cumbersome to carry, open or concealed, but especially concealed. Strongly suggest you consider the 2.5" Model 19 or 66, and 2" or 3" Models 10, 13, 64 and 65.
I know the difference between a J frame and a K frame, and, for me, the differences are enough for me consider a K frame, weight and size issues duly considered. I'm also considering a few semi auto's as well, but at heart, I'm a revolver guy.
You've shot defensive rounds from a snubby K-frame and are confident the recoil is too much?
K frame carry
I carried a 4" Sq Bt M65 as an off duty weapon for close to 20 years before replacing it with an auto, I carried it in a simple "sheath" type clip holster that was IWB.....I also carried the same gun OWB in a pancake type - always carried strong side hip, 4" K's are quite concealable....most of my career was spent in hot, humid climes and I usually wore a T-shirt or a button up shirt with the tails out.....I would recommend you check out Lobo Leather, and there are many others out there to "fill the bill". Good shooting.
I carried a 4" Sq Bt M65 as an off duty weapon for close to 20 years before replacing it with an auto, I carried it in a simple "sheath" type clip holster that was IWB.....I also carried the same gun OWB in a pancake type - always carried strong side hip, 4" K's are quite concealable....most of my career was spent in hot, humid climes and I usually wore a T-shirt or a button up shirt with the tails out.....I would recommend you check out Lobo Leather, and there are many others out there to "fill the bill". Good shooting.
I thought perhaps.
Snubby is a bit of an amorphous term referring to the shorter barrel lengths in all the frame sizes -- J, K, L and N.
I strongly encourage that you look at the 2"-3" K-frame snubbies I listed above for concealed carry, and move the 4" Ks to the back of the line.
An owb pancake holster on a good belt should work just fine.
Maze 686
US Veteran
I carry my 4 inch 686 in a Black Hills inside the waistband holster without any problems. I've worn it with just a polo shirt and it stays concealed and very easy carrying.
Most folks around here think buying used is preferred.
If you prefer new, your best bet is an L-frame 686 with a 2.5" barrel. It's a touch beefier than a K-frame, but comparable overall, and an excellent, well-balanced fighting revolver; nicely controls even heavy .38 +P recoil, and stainless has advantages for carry -- fewer handling marks and less prone to rust.
If you're willing to buy used, options really open up. Again, see earlier suggestions. If I had to pick one, I'd recommend a 2.5" Model 66. One advantage to buying used is that -- since you intend to carry -- there are many mechanically sound shooters out there with some cosmetic wear and that brings the price down -- you save a little money, and don't have to worry about the inevitable carry wear.
I respect the opinions and advice of fellow members, but I'm not certain your legitimate concerns regarding stature and concealed carry are being adequately considered when they recommend a 4" K-frame. Ones physical dimensions play a significant role in both concealed carry comfort, ease of draw and bringing to bear the firearm, and most importantly, remaining properly and consistently concealed while in public.
A round-butted K-frame, 2 to 2.5" barrel ideally, and no more than 3", stainless or nickel first followed by blue, I think will best suit your needs as you have described them.
SgtLumpy
Member
I have absolutely zero problems carrying a 4" K frame IWB on my strong side. And I'm an old guy with an injured right arm. If you can touch your right arm pit with your right hand (for right handers) then you can "clear leather" with a 4" or larger gun from the belt line.
Presenting ANY gun from ANY holstered location, concealed or otherwise, takes -um- practice. It's not a matter of "With this holster it will be automatic and I won't need to practice".
On snubby recoil -
The recoil happens AFTER you shoot. Heavy recoil is only a factor in RAPID FIRE, repeated target shooting. Hold on to the darn thing and allow it to kick you a little bit. Change your grip. Change your grips. Figure out how to hold on to that little 2 lbs of metal for the millilsecond that it's kicking you. Apply the same kind of body mechanics you apply when getting kicked by other things like sticking a shovel into a pile of dirt, throwing a ball, hitting a nail with a hammer, loosening a jar or your lug nuts, closing the hood on your truck.
On snubby ballistics -
Nobody has ever heard/said "Don't worry about that bullet wound in the chest. You were only shot with a snub nose"
Smoothly put ONE bullet on target. Repeat. Repeat that a few thousand times. You are a pistolero. You automatically adapt and figure out how to work the hardware.
Struggle with the "theory" of why this bullet or that, why this holster or that will be "adequate" when you need it while actually firing only 50 rounds per year makes you not a pistolero but a "theory struggler".
Don't be a theory struggler.
Sgt Lumpy
Presenting ANY gun from ANY holstered location, concealed or otherwise, takes -um- practice. It's not a matter of "With this holster it will be automatic and I won't need to practice".
On snubby recoil -
The recoil happens AFTER you shoot. Heavy recoil is only a factor in RAPID FIRE, repeated target shooting. Hold on to the darn thing and allow it to kick you a little bit. Change your grip. Change your grips. Figure out how to hold on to that little 2 lbs of metal for the millilsecond that it's kicking you. Apply the same kind of body mechanics you apply when getting kicked by other things like sticking a shovel into a pile of dirt, throwing a ball, hitting a nail with a hammer, loosening a jar or your lug nuts, closing the hood on your truck.
On snubby ballistics -
Nobody has ever heard/said "Don't worry about that bullet wound in the chest. You were only shot with a snub nose"
Smoothly put ONE bullet on target. Repeat. Repeat that a few thousand times. You are a pistolero. You automatically adapt and figure out how to work the hardware.
Struggle with the "theory" of why this bullet or that, why this holster or that will be "adequate" when you need it while actually firing only 50 rounds per year makes you not a pistolero but a "theory struggler".
Don't be a theory struggler.
Sgt Lumpy
Water-Man
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Lobo Gun Leather - Enhanced Pancake Model
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I would say that the best way to carry a 4" K Frame would be in a OWB Holster from a quality Maker. A 4" K frame is a bit more than I like to carry on a regular basis and you might consider a 2" K - which should be a bit more forgiving in the recoil department than a 2" J. Another suggestion would be a vintage 3" J Frame (M36) which is still a J Frame, but has the square butt and will soak up a bit more recoil. The 3" J also has a Bull barrel which helps too.
I am 6 feet, 200 pounds and even I would not want to carry a 4" K all day - every day. When I am in the Woods hiking I'll carry my M65 3" and while I don't mind carrying that in the woods (OWB) I would not like to keep that concealed all day either.
If you decide that a 4" K is really what suites you, then I would suggest a Horsehide OWB and a 1 1/4" to 1 1/2 Horsehide belt. The Horsehide is stiffer than Cowhide, a little lighter and will keep your 4" K from flopping around .
I am 6 feet, 200 pounds and even I would not want to carry a 4" K all day - every day. When I am in the Woods hiking I'll carry my M65 3" and while I don't mind carrying that in the woods (OWB) I would not like to keep that concealed all day either.
If you decide that a 4" K is really what suites you, then I would suggest a Horsehide OWB and a 1 1/4" to 1 1/2 Horsehide belt. The Horsehide is stiffer than Cowhide, a little lighter and will keep your 4" K from flopping around .
Springfeildkid585
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I've been adjusting to my new k-frame snubby, I'm beginning to think it's too bulky for inside the waistband. I'd say go to your local sporting goods store or gun shop. Your looking for Uncle Mikes size 0. I'd say pick up one or two holsters, try them out, (I'd say pick up a multi-purpose and a shoulder rig) see what carry style works best for you with your kframe, then buy yourself a nicer holster in that style.
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attn loc n load/Sgt Lumpy
Like loc n load and some others, I used to carry a 4" service gun in a suede IWB clip holster. Yeah, I know it has no safety strap in most cases, but it still 'fits my pistol.' Trouble is now, I've become what Mas Ayoob calls a "leisure loving lounge lizard." Most of the time, I find myself toting a lightweight or two. My 3 snub .357s are also kept busy when I feel the need.
And yes, as Sgt Lumpy says, the little snub mags CAN be controlled if you want to, the steel frame jobs especially. The recoil goes directly back into my palm due to the smaller frame. I always had a problem with the RB snub 66 as the magnum recoil would cause the gun to 'dive' and force me to re-acquire my grip. Wasn't this one of the reasons for the +P+ ammo in Federal service?
Happy holidays to all.
Kaaskop49
Shield #5103
Like loc n load and some others, I used to carry a 4" service gun in a suede IWB clip holster. Yeah, I know it has no safety strap in most cases, but it still 'fits my pistol.' Trouble is now, I've become what Mas Ayoob calls a "leisure loving lounge lizard." Most of the time, I find myself toting a lightweight or two. My 3 snub .357s are also kept busy when I feel the need.
And yes, as Sgt Lumpy says, the little snub mags CAN be controlled if you want to, the steel frame jobs especially. The recoil goes directly back into my palm due to the smaller frame. I always had a problem with the RB snub 66 as the magnum recoil would cause the gun to 'dive' and force me to re-acquire my grip. Wasn't this one of the reasons for the +P+ ammo in Federal service?
Happy holidays to all.
Kaaskop49
Shield #5103
Water-Man
US Veteran
I sometimes carry a K-Frame S&W M10-7 3".
It carries well in an OWB pancake holster and a good belt.
You might find something similar on the 'used' market.
It carries well in an OWB pancake holster and a good belt.
You might find something similar on the 'used' market.
Rahjerz
Member
Try a TT Gunleather convertible, can be used inside IWB or
OWB. Use one for my M19-5 4", you have to break it in and then it's very comfortable.
OWB. Use one for my M19-5 4", you have to break it in and then it's very comfortable.
Kframerbluvr
Member
Try a TT Gunleather convertible, can be used inside IWB or
OWB. Use one for my M19-5 4", you have to break it in and then it's very comfortable.
Nice holster! I have a M10 4" standard barrel that needs one of those.....
66snub
Member
Ok, here we go. I'll pitch the ideal (worked for me, maybe for you too) carry package. A 686+ in 2" carried in a galco combat master or comparable quality leather OWB strong side holster.
For reloads, Safariland nylon double speed loader pouch on the weak side with 2 HKS speed loaders and a speed strip in your watch pocket. Load it with 38+P's from the manufacturer of your choosing.
This gun will be heavy enough to suck up any recoil from the rounds, will be accurate enough to get it done, and carry that extra bullet if you need it. And one final bonus advantage. At 5' in height, that 686 will look HUGE when it's pointed at the bad guy!
For reloads, Safariland nylon double speed loader pouch on the weak side with 2 HKS speed loaders and a speed strip in your watch pocket. Load it with 38+P's from the manufacturer of your choosing.
This gun will be heavy enough to suck up any recoil from the rounds, will be accurate enough to get it done, and carry that extra bullet if you need it. And one final bonus advantage. At 5' in height, that 686 will look HUGE when it's pointed at the bad guy!
Dear Sirs, I have a question that I hope will help me to clear that I'm in another country, Uruguay, prices here are worth double that in the US.
For concealed carry, choose from:
1) S & W Model 10 38 cal pipe 2 "bluing used NIB -------> U $ S 900.
I love the action, has a square handle, it does perhaps a little big, if not bear loads + p +. The bluing is beautiful but delicate demeanor is perhaps. It has the traditional for service handles S & W wood, are beautiful.
2) S & W model 60 -9, cal 357, with pipe 2 "used NIB ----------------> U $ S 800.
I do not like the action of the "J" is tough series, it does not compare to the "K" but it is something that could cope, it is a defensive weapon. I do not like the rubber grips., Although very functional, I like the traditional wooden service.
3) Walther PPK, manufactured by S & W, worked with NIB machine -----> U $ S 1800.
It is very beautiful, is blackened, machine engraved, and its grip is integral, engraved wood, very cute butt.
I have no idea if they break or are very good. As I read that sometimes there Manua insurance decoker breaks? I say it's a limited edition.
This limited version is considered fine you fake? This gun is really master piece? Do you think opsión between 1 and 2, which would you recommend and why? Which of the three weapons recommend me for concealed carry and why?
Thank you very much for your help, your opinion is important to me.
Thank you,
Ale Pera
For concealed carry, choose from:
1) S & W Model 10 38 cal pipe 2 "bluing used NIB -------> U $ S 900.
I love the action, has a square handle, it does perhaps a little big, if not bear loads + p +. The bluing is beautiful but delicate demeanor is perhaps. It has the traditional for service handles S & W wood, are beautiful.
2) S & W model 60 -9, cal 357, with pipe 2 "used NIB ----------------> U $ S 800.
I do not like the action of the "J" is tough series, it does not compare to the "K" but it is something that could cope, it is a defensive weapon. I do not like the rubber grips., Although very functional, I like the traditional wooden service.
3) Walther PPK, manufactured by S & W, worked with NIB machine -----> U $ S 1800.
It is very beautiful, is blackened, machine engraved, and its grip is integral, engraved wood, very cute butt.
I have no idea if they break or are very good. As I read that sometimes there Manua insurance decoker breaks? I say it's a limited edition.
This limited version is considered fine you fake? This gun is really master piece? Do you think opsión between 1 and 2, which would you recommend and why? Which of the three weapons recommend me for concealed carry and why?
Thank you very much for your help, your opinion is important to me.
Thank you,
Ale Pera
Welcome.
These are my suggestions, and some may not agree. My shooting partner has a Walther PPK in 380 that he uses as a pocket carry gun. He likes it, and it is the only handgun he carries for self defense. He has others, but he chooses the PPK.
I have 5 guns in my carry rotation, and which one Icarry is dictated by the "climate" of the day. These are: a Mauser HSC (380), a S&W Model 36-6, a S&W Model 439, a Ruger Commander, and a Colt Trooper MKIII. When I can legally carry, the daily selection is the model 36.
Of the 3 you identify, I would suggest that you lean towards the Model 10. My rationale is: you don't like the trigger on the 60, so you may not elect to carry it when you need it most. I would shy away from the PPK, because you never know what will become of your gun if you have to use it, and the cost is way too much to risk loosing.
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