Black CS45 questions/experiences

[18DAI]

I have had a late production, stainless CS45 for some time now. Ambi safety (I'm left handed) metal Novak sights. I had to modify it with the excellent TercGen grips to make it work, for me. And I have been satisfied with it.

Very accurate and reliable. Not a lot of fun to shoot, but I carry it often, so I shoot it regularly. But I have been giving alot of thought lately to having just one regular carry gun. A true "everyday carry". One that is small and light enough to carry and conceal comfortably.

And after spending the last several weeks, shooting what is in my inventory, the CS9 and CS45 appear to be the contenders. BUT - while nine is ok, I prefer a 45. I'm comfortable with a CS45 on my belt. Yeah, slightly harder to control while firing and slightly heavier......bulky, than the CS9. But I am leaning twards one.

So, black CS45. With a small Big Dot front sight and a blacked out Novak rear. Single sided safety, which I only use as a decocker anyways. Thins the gun down. TercGen grips with a chopped Hogue grip sleeve - check, have those already. And have enough CS45 mags.

My questions to the black carbon steel slide CS45 owners is whether the finish holds up? Is it the same as that on the 457s? How about the accuracy? Are yours accurate? And are your black CS45s finicky about ammo? I think the carbon steel slide and lack of ambi safety should make the black CS45 an ounce or two lighter than the stainless variant.

My stainless will not reliably eat my favorite carry round - RA45T. It will eat 230 Gold dots and HST and Hydra-shok. But it occasionally chokes on the last round in the mag when using RA45T. Annoying.

Thats what I am thinking of doing. So please let me know of your experiences with the black, carbon steel CS45. Thanks! Regards 18DAI

 

[4T5GUY]

Although I don’t have a “blackened” CS45 I have other ones. I don’t need to go down the list but some are PC examples and the “blackened” finish does NOT hold up. Even a ANIB one I got was already not perfect cosmetically.

I was caliperingly measuring the forward slide cuts depth (probably not a real word but,) for a member here on one of my PC’s and even though I was real careful it still removed some finish.

My “blackened” CS9 & 908 are subjected to a lot of holster/carry time and show it but even the “stainless” ones show wear.

I think you know all this and have already accepted the finish wear that will obviously happen with the “blackened” ones, Value Line to PC. It doesn’t affect function/accuracy and at some point you, me and everyone else who cares will figure out what to use for a cosmetic refinish.

Jim

 

[JohnHL]

Nothing here to add re: The Magic Marker/Wipe Erase finish.

I love the S&W single action, but if you're looking for the ultimate in thin, you might consider a conversion to DAO Second Strike.

Eliminates the decock lever.

And if you really want to put her on a diet, have a pin machined to replace the slide lock lever.

You lose last shot hold open, but you gain a sleeker profile.

Did it to a couple of mine.

Thinned 'em down real good!

John

 

[HOUSTON RICK]

While the blue/black finishes look nice at first, I learned early on that the stainless type finishes generally hold up better. If you need the CS45, I do not think a spot or two in the finish will matter.

 

[Redcoat3340]

As I bought mine used I haven't had it long enough to observe any loss of finish, but the finish on the slide has been definitely wearing thin for a while.
But for what I got it for, a carry gun, I'm not too concerned. I doubt I will outlast the finish still left and anyone looking at it from the front, where the big hole is, ain't gonna critique the "bluing" or lack thereof.

As far as ammo I've only used some Sellier 230 fmj and a mag or so of Sig Elite Performance and so far no hiccups. (And I too have a 9mm CS but tend to stuff the .45 into the belt when I go out. I used to carry a 4513TSW but the CS45 seems to be displacing it. And BMCM worked them all over, so reliability ain't an issue.)

 

[DMcBB]

Hey 18DAI, what’s to stop you from just cerokoating the slide in black, or some more adventurous color? Cerokoate isn’t too expensive, certainly less than hard chrome or NP3/nitride.

 

[18DAI]

Yea, I thought about Melonite or cerakote........

But...... I have decided to forget it and try to keep working with the 9mm CS9. No handgun round is a death ray. I just need to......keep getting more comfortable with 9mm.

The CS9 really is that much smaller and lighter than the CS45. It seems to make more sense in a deep concealment, EDC type of pistol. And I already own one that would work, so the only expenditure would be the sights.

Thanks all! Regards 18DAI

 

[cherrypointmarine]

As a matter of fact I had my CS9 out to the range Tuesday . Now it's been worked over by BMCM , so I'm not surprised by the accuracy . I started off with 115gr , then 124 and finally 147gr , the latter I should have by-passed . All of my CS's have been to BMCM so I can't comment on how they shot , I shipped them off as soon as I got them . Ultimately it'll come down to what you like , and it sounds like you know what that is .

 

[Fastbolt]

I have a 4040PD which has the plain black finish on a carbon steel slide. I've had it since maybe '06, and I've used it for range/carry roles, and it's spent a lot of its life being stored in a leather holster, even in the safe. No oxidation, and the plain black finish is still plain and black. Dull and lusterless, of course. Working Black.

FWIW, just after I bought my 4040PD, I asked one of the guys I knew at the factory why they'd never made the Scandium aluminum framed single stack .40 with a stainless slide. After all, the Scandium aluminum frame was already expensive, and they'd gone to the trouble of adding the machining in the slide for the optional spring-loaded decocker, so why not a stainless (slide) model? His answer was the equivalent of a vocal shrug (over the phone). Not enough market demand, apparently.

18DAI, as much as you (and I ) may like .45ACP, constant carry comfort becomes a factor the longer we carry guns and the older we become ... like it or not. After so many years of carrying "Full-size Fighting Handguns" (fanfare noise), sooner or later many of us look to find that "just right" compromise in carry weight and size.

The "size" consideration might mean thickness, or it might mean grip girth, or it might mean slide length, or some combination, thereof. It's been different things at different times for me in the last 3+ decades. Now I find myself looking at overall weight (meaning looking at loaded weight), as well as length. Thickness, to a degree, depending on how I anticipate being seated for extended periods, and in what kind of seating. You gotta go with what works for you.

I'll find myself carrying my CS9 instead of my 3913 or 3913TSW ... or my CS9 instead of my CS45 ... or my CS45 instead of my 4513TSW, etc. My 4", 4.5" & 5" guns see less carry roles than when I was younger, although my 4.1" SW9940 is often one of those "just right" combination of features and attributes. My compact SW999c feels much thinner in the grip frame than my G26, comes to that, even though they both use 10rd mags. Well, that's what can happen when you can design a grip frame around a slimmer steel-bodied magazine.

We've talked about it at length on the phone, but perhaps it bears repeating (at least for the forum thread). While I've owned my CS45 longer (from first production of the stainless slide version) than I've owned my CS9, and I've run a LOT more rounds through the CS45 over the years ...

... If I were only going to keep ONE of them, it would be the CS9. And I'm a .45 kinda guy.

Luck to you.

If you're going to go to an early production CS45C (carbon steel slide, folks), you might want to replace the plastic sights. If mixing the standard dot (now XS, versus the original Ashley company) with the standard 2 dot steel S&W rear sight, I'd make sure the front height worked for the factory rear, to avoid elevation issues.

My well-worn CS45 (which was modified at the PC for the spring-loaded decocker), w/original Big Dot sights.





But my CS9 is "just right" ...

 

[18DAI]

Roger that Fastbolt my friend! The age thing is playing into this. The onset of arthritis, multiple knee and back problems from prior injuries, in the service of the State.

And "need" figures into it too. I really don't have a "need" to carry a full size combat pistol everyday. At the public range, all the employees are armed and we have rapid access to a couple of long guns too.

And on duty, I have Bailiffs who escort me around and guard me against miscreants. So, a lighter, comfortable gun makes more sense these days. Don't get me wrong, I still love shooting my 4506-1, 4566s and PC 45s. But somedays, wearing them for 12 or 16 hours, is not as appealing as it was when I was a young man.

Thats why the 3913NL, CS9, CS45 and 457 are currently in my daily safe. They are all I carry lately. Unless it is a "short day" working only one job, then a 4566......or 4563 get the nod.

Thin and light weight are my driving factors. I want a thin, light weight, metal framed, hammer fired......45. But out of everything I own, or can purchase, the 457 is the closest to what I want. Not too heavy, not too thick in Gods caliber.

But I agree with you, there is a lot to be said for the little CS9. And I carry my stainless one a lot. With an excellent round in it - 147 RA9B. Kills bugs dead. And I know that with shot placement, I am good with that combo..........if......only I had not read so much of Uncle Scotty's writing. Regards 18DAI

 

[Driswalds]

I am not happy with the black CS45 finish.
It will show rust everyday I carry it in the warm weather.
I will eventually have it cerokoated.

 

[4T5GUY]

Of course the 457 is a great option over a midsize or full size .45. It’s got everything going for it. But it’s still a bit bigger and heavier than other, (less capacity,) .45 options, (but again you know this.)

I’ve said too many times here but I got the 4513TSW to “replace” my 4516-2 and I was still young. By the end of the day that 4516 got heavy. Even back then.

It’s kinda funny cause when I tried to photo my “worn” black finish examples they looked good. In the photos. I even tilted them in the sunlight so the worn out finishes would be obvious. It doesn’t really matter and maybe I’m just picky but I’m still not a fan of that finish S&W got by with.

Jim

 

[Redcoat3340]

I had my CS9 "on" today, in my pocket (I got one pair of jeans that would hold a 1959 Cadillac if I tried to park it there.). And ya'all are correct about age beginning to catch up. I don't mind my 4513TSW IWB, but tend to grab the CS45 a lot more. I'm even thinking of one of those little super sub-compacts...but still resist a striker-fired in favor of what I'm used to.

 

[dsf]

I have a 4040PD which has the plain black finish on a carbon steel slide. I've had it since maybe '06, and I've used it for range/carry roles, and it's spent a lot of its life being stored in a leather holster, even in the safe. No oxidation, and the plain black finish is still plain and black. Dull and lusterless, of course. Working Black.

FWIW, just after I bought my 4040PD, I asked one of the guys I knew at the factory why they'd never made the Scandium aluminum framed single stack .40 with a stainless slide. After all, the Scandium aluminum frame was already expensive, and they'd gone to the trouble of adding the machining in the slide for the optional spring-loaded decocker, so why not a stainless (slide) model? His answer was the equivalent of a vocal shrug (over the phone). Not enough market demand, apparently.

18DAI, as much as you (and I ) may like .45ACP, constant carry comfort becomes a factor the longer we carry guns and the older we become ... like it or not. After so many years of carrying "Full-size Fighting Handguns" (fanfare noise), sooner or later many of us look to find that "just right" compromise in carry weight and size.

The "size" consideration might mean thickness, or it might mean grip girth, or it might mean slide length, or some combination, thereof. It's been different things at different times for me in the last 3+ decades. Now I find myself looking at overall weight (meaning looking at loaded weight), as well as length. Thickness, to a degree, depending on how I anticipate being seated for extended periods, and in what kind of seating. You gotta go with what works for you.

I'll find myself carrying my CS9 instead of my 3913 or 3913TSW ... or my CS9 instead of my CS45 ... or my CS45 instead of my 4513TSW, etc. My 4", 4.5" & 5" guns see less carry roles than when I was younger, although my 4.1" SW9940 is often one of those "just right" combination of features and attributes. My compact SW999c feels much thinner in the grip frame than my G26, comes to that, even though they both use 10rd mags. Well, that's what can happen when you can design a grip frame around a slimmer steel-bodied magazine.

We've talked about it at length on the phone, but perhaps it bears repeating (at least for the forum thread). While I've owned my CS45 longer (from first production of the stainless slide version) than I've owned my CS9, and I've run a LOT more rounds through the CS45 over the years ...

... If I were only going to keep ONE of them, it would be the CS9. And I'm a .45 kinda guy.

Luck to you.

If you're going to go to an early production CS45C (carbon steel slide, folks), you might want to replace the plastic sights. If mixing the standard dot (now XS, versus the original Ashley company) with the standard 2 dot steel S&W rear sight, I'd make sure the front height worked for the factory rear, to avoid elevation issues.

My well-worn CS45 (which was modified at the PC for the spring-loaded decocker), w/original Big Dot sights.





But my CS9 is "just right" ...

I have the CS45 and CS9 and am very much liking those leather holsters - who is the maker and what is the model, very nice.

 

[Fastbolt]

Don Hume H726. Not sure they still offer it for the CS series.

 

[dsf]

^
Thank you -

 

[18DAI]

I'd thought I'd decided to only carry a 457 and a CS9 for the times the 457 wouldn't work due to dress code/social situation.

Well........that didn't last long. CS45 will also be kept in the daily safe. Too good not to. On my belt tonight though. Great little carry 45 that shoots like a much bigger gun. Regards 18DAI

 

[Fastbolt]

I'd thought I'd decided to only carry a 457 and a CS9 for the times the 457 wouldn't work due to dress code/social situation.

Well........that didn't last long. CS45 will also be kept in the daily safe. Too good not to. On my belt tonight though. Great little carry 45 that shoots like a much bigger gun. Regards 18DAI

I know we've discussed this before during calls, but for everyone else just reading this thread ...

I've had a like/dislike relationship with my CS45 since first ordering it back in '99. I quickly sent the slide back to the PC to have it modified for the spring-loaded decock-only (once I convinced the PC folks I could check the decocking timing and fit a new sear release myself, since I was a factory-trained armorer, if it was needed). Cheaper than sending the frame.

Since mine was still an early production gun, just when the stainless slides were released, my CS45 was affected by a couple of early production issues.

First, some of the initial secondary mag lip indentations had been applied unevenly (done by hand when the revision was adopted at the very beginning), and it could sometimes affect feeding because some of the unevenly applied indention slowed the rise of the next top round.

Second, I was told that some early CS45's had left the factory with too tight of a tolerance between the barrel tab and the breech face. Mine was one of them, but the guy running Pistol Repair back then told me how to check and how much metal to remove. Problem solved.

I experimented with some various sights, ending up using the original Ashley Express Big Dots sights. It made shooting a standard Pepper Popper at 50yds a bit more challenging (shifting to using the top round edge of the Big Dot, against a small black round target ). Fast enough using the close range (<15yds) method of "cover the POI with the center of the front Dot", though.

Then, the only issue to be addressed was remembering to replace the recoil spring periodically, as I burned up cases of ammo shooting it.

I understood why the engineers had decided to commission Hogue to make the CS grip stocks, too. In the .45 model they really helped reduce felt recoil and muzzle whip so the gun could be run fast. It gave me more stability in the hand than the larger 4513TSW with factory stocks.

Like can be found with other diminutive .45's, however, the smaller the .45 becomes, the more it demands of both the shooter and the ammo. The little .45 requires attention to maintaining a firm (healthy handshake) grip and a locked wrist.

I watched one experienced instructor, used to shooting larger .45's experience a couple grip-instability caused stoppages. A really short slide travel and faster cycling, combined with a heavier recoil, can rob force from the really short recoil spring and risk impeding normal functioning. Grip it like you mean it and don't let your wrist 'break' during cycling.

I still shoot my CS45 more than my CS9, BTW. Why? Well, because shooting the CS9 is pretty easy, while shooting the CS45 keeps me mindful of not allowing my attention to grip fundamentals to get lazy. Also, all those years of working to mast the CS45 has continually made shooting the CS9 (even using the 124gr +P and 127gr +P+ loads I was issued at various times) seem like a walk in the park. Win-win.

The one t5hing I often wish they'd done with the Chief's Special models is the same thing I've often wished they'd done with the 3913 ... which was offer a stainless steel frame option. Or at least a Scandium aluminum frame. While good lubrication and maintenance practices can help wring maximum service life from aluminum frames, at the end of the day steel is steel and aluminum is aluminum.

I don't know how many thousands of rounds I've run through my own CS45, but I typically used to replace the recoil spring every 800-1200rds, and I've lost count of the many recoil springs I've replaced.

I knew one guy who only fired his CS45 once or twice a year, for off-duty quals, and when I asked him if he'd ever replaced the recoil and mag springs he said no. He'd been shooting the gun for 10 years at that point. Said he'd never had any problems with it, either, whether we were issuing 230gr Ball for quals or various 230gr JHP's (depending on inventory availability). He finally replaced the springs, but I don't expect him to think about it again for a long time. (And while you can still order factory mag springs, the recoil springs have been discontinued.)

 

[18DAI]

A steel framed CS45 would have been a fine gun to have! So would a steel framed 3913 too.

Yea, the CS45 is a hard gun to like, when using it as intended. It does take a lot of work to become and remain proficient with. Moreso than say a 4513TSW or even a 457. And MANY enthusiasts, don't have the time, money or........inclination to do so. But for true practitioners of the art, it is a VERY handy pistol to have. AND master.

My early, chopped grip 4513TSW is still my favorite handgun. And I will likely take it out to shoot and carry it when the whim hits me. But, I didn't shoot it as fast and as well, at speed on a timer as I did the 457. Because of the short grip. Several times during draws, I screwed up my hand placement and under the artificial "stress", on the timer, was not able to correct my grip and the shot placement told the story.

Actually I was able to get solid A hits, faster, with the CS45 too. Surprised me. I have been shooting the 4513TSW far longer than the other two. Thats why we conduct tests on this stuff.

As I have mentioned before Fastbolt, were it not for the TercGen grips, I would have sold/traded the CS45....early on. I do agree with you that the OEM Hogue grips make it much easier....and a bit more comfortable to shoot....especially for a training session or extended range time, I just couldn't carry it with those on. It kept rising up out of the holster, due to grabbing on either the cover garment or my undershirt. ANNOYING! Gordon at Bang Bang leather made me an excellent IWB holster to carry it in. Makes it disappear. Even under a loose T-shirt. Talented guy.

I am not worried about the recoil springs. I have confidence that our own BMCM will come up with a suitable replacement for us. As you have taught us, I change mine out on my CS45 at 1K rounds. My friend RedCardinal sold me a few, so I have enough to keep my CS45 running for some time. Or until the Master Chief completes testing on the replacement spring. And despite one or two trolls here who constantly whine about "...hard to find spare parts!" or "...no manufacturer support!", I don't worry about either of those contrived issues.

Unlike the trolls, I own and use 3rd gen guns. Daily. And shoot them FAR MORE than the "average gun owner". And in over twenty years I broke 3 parts - 4516 MIM mag catch, 457 nylon mag catch wore out at......6K+ rounds? And a sideplate on the same 457 at around....9K rounds? All three parts were EASY to find - Gunbroker/Ebay - and easily replaced. For not much money either. Don't feed the troll. Shoot and enjoy the pistols. Regards 18DAI