Black Powder Blank 12 gauge shotshells. Powder help?

[Vegetaman]

Looking at loading some blank 12 gauge shotshells with black powder for use in a single shot style shotgun (break action). Most recipes call for FFg (6 oz, I believe). Newer shotgun (about 3 years old).

Can I use FFFg? For whatever reason, FFg seems hard to find locally, but triple F is not. Do I need to modify the load any, or should it not be a problem since it is a "blank" with just an overshot card and a roll crimp?

 

[Rpg]

I doubt your shotshell would hold 6 oz of black powder.

You have the load wrong.

Perhaps 6 drams?

Drams are a unit of volume (a dram of rum). About 1/8 fluid ounce.

 

[arjay]

It would take less fffg

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

Even 6 Drams of Black Powder would be a huge amount! A 4 dram eq. load is a really hot load.

When I make BP shot shells I only use about 90 grains of FFg w/1 ounce of shot. 200 would probably fill a 3" case to the crimp.

When you determine the charge of powder there will need to be a wad. In modern shot shell this is a plastic column and you could fill it with a wadded clump of tissue paper. In traditional shells the wad was a stack of felt or cork disks to take up volume and reduce felt recoil. Either of these will come out at several hundred to 1000 feet per second!

Black Powder has to be under compression to ignite properly, That is why loading presses have wad pressure adjustments, around 30 pounds of pressure is average. The roll or folded crimp holds this against the powder.

What is the purpose of these home made blanks? If it is just for noise on the 4th of July it is going to be pretty loud! my BP Sporting Clays loads are 50 to 75% louder than Smokeless loads! If it is for bird/goose scaring, it is a bigger pain in the butt than the birds! BP requires a thorough scrubbing after use (within a few hours). If these or for props in a movie or play (indoor or outdoor) these are dangerous! The smoke won't clear in time for the next act. (People have DIED with much smaller handgun blanks).

Muzzle loading shotguns are much easier to make a blank load for. Cartridge blanks require a huge amount of care!

Ivan

 

[OKFC05]

6 drams of FFg is a normal BLANK load in a 12ga. It needs an over powder card wad (usually .135"), tightly compressed to insure ignition. That leaves just enough room for a normal star crimp to close the hull and keep the card wad from shifting.
Use real blackpowder, not pyrodex, for best results, and the gun will make a satisfying boom with an impressive bright burning flash of fire.
I know what my long-deceased blackpowder mentor would say about substituting pistol powder in a shotgun charge: "Boy, you wanting to make shotgun loads or a hand grenade?"


And as Ivan noted, you can injure or kill animals or people with the wad and blast from a shotgun blank.

 

[rsrocket1]

I used to shoot regular loads of shotshell powder/wad/primer simply without the shot load and they did make a satisfying bang. You're right about the danger of the wad, I pointed the muzzle at the lawn and blew a good sized chunk of sod out of it with the blast and wad.

If you use BP or a BP sub for the purpose of more smoke, just make sure you really clean out the barrel after shooting. Not only will you get heavy fouling, but the fouling will also attract moisture and cause the barrel to rust.

 

[DWalt]

You could experiment to see what the minimum quantity required to make enough noise is. The BP granulation used won't make much difference. I would imagine Pyrodex might work OK if you can't find BP. BTW, One Dram of BP = 27.34 grains.

 

[cahotshoe]

WE used to use a bang/smoke load for yacht racing. IIRC were made by Winchester/Western. You could see the smoke for the entire starting line and the judge boat. A loud bang if you were close enough, but you crossed on the smoke. Non corrosive, even in a marine environment. Wish I still had some.

 

[BigMuddy]

I am an old west re-enactor and we load all of our own blanks.....except the shotguns. Those we purchase and have used WW Blackpowder and Fiocchi smokless. Those BP's are LOUD!!!

We have messed with loading the shotguns too, and it is just such a pain we buy them instead. However, if you want to try them what has worked for us is loading the shell about 3/4 full with BP and top it off with vermiculite. (can be purchased at Home Depot, Menard's, etc). It compresses easily and is extremely light in weight. It has proven to be the best material to compress the powder in all of our blanks as it is the safest. As mentioned already a card wad in a shot shell is deadly. The vermiculite will come out a disperse in the air.

Dan

 

[Alk8944]

I doubt your shotshell would hold 6 oz of black powder.

You have the load wrong.

Perhaps 6 drams?

Drams are a unit of volume (a dram of rum). About 1/8 fluid ounce.

NO, it is not! In this context a dram is a weight measure equal to 27 1/2** grains. 6 drams would be 165 grains. Without a bullet it will not develop significant pressure, and whether FFg or FFg is used is immaterial. Not knowing the condition of the gun you will shoot these is keeping to 3 to 3 1/2 Dr. would be a good idea, and you probably won't notice the difference in the report.

Strictly DWalt is correct, but functionally 27 1/2 is identical.

 

[Drm50]

I load a few 12g BP shells for a old Wire Twist dbl. I use FFFg
because that is what I shot in my TC Hawkin. The ML nuts think
it's terrible but my 50 cal shoots well with it. My BP shotgun
loads use the old fiber over the powder wad, firmly seated. I
load 50grs of 3Fg for blank load. Kids like to bang them of on
4th and New Years. Anything over 50grs is a waste. In modern
steel single barrel a blank load will only burn so much powder.
You don't have to worry about a over load, it will end up as
smoke, fire, and unburnt powder on the ground.

 

[DWalt]

Back in my CAS days, I once loaded some BP 12 ga shot loads (not blanks) for my Winchester Model 97. I used standard plastic shot cups. The plastic from the shot cups coated the barrel bore after using them - I was cleaning out long plastic strands which never happened with smokeless loads. That was the first and last time I used BP for shotgun shells.

 

[Inusuit]

Back in my CAS days, I once loaded some BP 12 ga shot loads (not blanks) for my Winchester Model 97. I used standard plastic shot cups. The plastic from the shot cups coated the barrel bore after using them - I was cleaning out long plastic strands which never happened with smokeless loads. That was the first and last time I used BP for shotgun shells.

Saw this happen in a couple of SASS matches. Never a good idea to use plastic shot cups with black powder. Enough plastic accumulated in the bore of one Model 97 to create an obstruction that caused the barrel to blow out.

 

[Vegetaman]

You guys were correct, I meant 6 drams and not 6 ounces. Yikes, screwed up my post right out of the starting gate!

Usage is in a modern single shot 12 gauge that typically shoots smokeless slugs for visual and auditory effect.

Would prefer to have no wad or overshot card if at all possible, and I have a star crimper and a roll crimper... But no idea how to get the shell closed without having black powder be exposed to suck up moisture (potentially) or without having to use an overshot card (and don't really want a potential projectile). Thoughts?

 

[Drm50]

Fill over powder with toilet paper and star crimp. Paper will burn
when it clears muzzel and float down. Don't use around where
you might start a brush fire.

 

[Vegetaman]

Fill over powder with toilet paper and star crimp. Paper will burn
when it clears muzzel and float down. Don't use around where
you might start a brush fire.

Dang, never thought about the toilet paper and star crimp method... I like it. Thanks!

 

[dave1918a2]

For My BP blanks for July 4th I use 70 grains of FFFG( all I use for everything BP) an overpowder card and stuff with toilet paper so it holds a good crimp. Never had a problem. Have fun!

 

[Drm50]

Years ago inherited my g-grandpa's 12g DBLs, wire twist BP gun.
Someone in family had removed firing pins to keep it from use
with smokeless. I made pins for it and literally "hand" loaded a
box of shells for it. Used TP fore over the powder wad. Bro and
I decided to take it squirrel hunting, each shoot a couple with it
then retire it to the wall. Shot squirrel out of grapevines and the
TP burning set vines on fire. We spent a 1/2 hour jerking vines
down and stamping out fires. Use caution when using TP for wad.
I believe we were using Charmin but you don't have to use the
good stuff.

 

[DWalt]

Vermiculite or styrofoam should work well as a filler.

 

[Nevada Ed]

Vermiculite or styrofoam should work well as a filler.

What ?

No Quaker Puffed Rice ! ?