Blew up my 629 today..embarrassed

Glad it all came out OK for the person...not so much for the Smith. I learned something here. With very little personal time due to work reloading is something I want to learn and do and it will wait until retirement and minimal distractions. WOW is all I can say...
 
Hmmm, tiny pebble size. Would you be familiar with the Nerds candy that my nephew loves? That's about the size of the pieces I took out.

I only used them once when I first bought my vibrator...of course on the cases I'm loading. I changed to walnut media because that stuff is like sand, and doesn't get caught in anything. Now I don't polish much at all. I don't need ultra pretty cases.

As far as I could tell they stuck because they locked themselves together.

Question, do you de-prime first, then tumble, or tumble then de-prime...? I heard early on in my reloading to tumble first, as media can get trapped in the flash hole if you de-prime first, then tumble. I've never had any corn cob media stuck in a case.
 
Thanks guys. I have separated all components. Actually did that not too long after the kaboom. My list of what I've learned from posting this is very long. And the advice I've been given by the forum has been invaluable.

You can pull bullets apart using an inertia bullet puller. They aren't too expensive, and something I have always considered necessary. I am using one from Lyman.
 
Ive campaigned against that powder for quite a while, especially in magnums.
truth be told, Ive run a lot of different powders through the 44 magnum.
Bullseye, 231, red dot, 700X 800X, 4227, even 3031 as well as many others.
Unique, 2400, 296 ... one of these three will address any need in praiseworthy fashion. There are others such as lilgun, MP300, and trailboss that have good reports I have not yet tried. MP300 might get a chance to dethrone 296/ H110 but I see no other reason to trade horses on Unique or 2400.

I AGREE, venomballistics. IIRC, ELMER KEITH WAS A FAN OF 2400. SOMETIMES, THE OLD STANDBYS ARE BEST………..
 
I pulled 2 bullets, both were 6 grs over and both were cast bullets that were heavy. I am loading 100 rds a week or so with winchester cases the same primers. i charge and seat one at a time. weighing isn't a big deal, i if you are trying got time.
You can't effectively find an overcharge weighing loaded rds, when using small charges of powder.
 
I must have had a double or triple charge in my case of Titegroup. I used 4.8 grs under a 240 gr lswc and standard winchester LPP. This is just a little above the minimum load from Hodgdon. I've used the load before with no problems.

Blew out the top strap, 4 cylinder holes and there are cracks in the frame. I will not be using Titegroup in this caliber again. If I have a double charge I want it to overflow the case.

Smith builds a fine weapon.

Glad you were not hurt, but I have to ask what are you doing while reloading?

Your surly not paying attention to detail, A triple charge???????
 
Dutch, good read and very informative. I just started reloading and have taken much of what you experienced to heart. Glad there was no bodily injury. When I finally saw a picture my first though was 'that will buff right out'. Best wishes...
 
I just read through this entire thread and it was very informative to say the least. I'm glad you didn't get hurt badly, dutch686. :) And while nobody has conclusively proved it one way or the other, I personally do believe that detonation is possible using small charges of fast, high energy powder in large volume cases such as the 44 Mag. Like has been said already in this thread, it would have to have been at least a triple charge or quadruple charge to blow your pistol up like that.

And the reason this thread caught my eye was because I had just read a thread in the reloading section of the 1911 forums where a guy blew his 1911 up with a double charge round. The damage on his 1911 was worse than your pistol and it's surprising he didn't get seriously injured. Luckily for him in that thread, he got off with just a few cuts from flying metal. I'm not usre how the Mods feel about linking to other forums here, but you can find the thread at the 1911 forums in the reloading forum. The blowup also lit off the next round in the mag too.:eek:
 
Dutch686 ,, Thanks for the Information and the follow up.. I've also read the entire thread. Lots of good idea as to what could have happened.. I guess it could have been one thing ,, or combination of many things..

At one time I had a pound of titegroup and reloaded with it. But didn't care for the small volume and how hot it burned.

For the last several years, I've been trying to use powders that will fill the case about 40% or more so it is easier to see & check the powder charge.. Getting old , eye sight not getting any better,, attention span not getting any longer,, need all the help I can get.. :D

Thanks for sharing. Glad you were not hurt. :)
 
im not so sure about the double or triple charge theory.
his load was 4.8 grains ... max listed is 10
a double would have been a hot fistful a triple charge ... I couldn't do that if I just came back from Denver.
it's either sticking one in the barrel, or the stuff is switching to nuclear fission mode.
the TG KB pic shows a shattered cylinder like a detonation might do.
the ladysmith pic is a swollen frame, looking like pressure.
Im really thinking its detonation

Have to agree..it could not have been a double charge as it would still be well under the max load for TG...and even Max loads in most reloading manuals are well under what a modern firearm will take before it blows the cylinder apart.

So for those of you who have some TG around how much of the case is filled with 14.4 grains in a .44 Magnum....

Velocity with that little powder is reported to be 800+- fps. Is the bullet in the barrel? Is there a second bullet in the barrel?

If the volume in the case is that little I do subscribe to the theory of "flashover" when the primer spark ignites not the bottom of the powder charge but the whole top of the charge if the charge is laying too far forward in the case.

Fasted powder I have ever used for Magnum cases is 231 but went back to Unique...

Bob
 
Personally I don't think it was a double charge. Doubling the charge I was using would have been under max if I remember correctly. Best way I look at this is the value of the discussion. Form your own conclusions based upon your personal experiences, and be safe in your reloading procedures. Whether the corn media was the problem or not I'm more aware of what I'm doing on the bench. I haven't used my progressive for quite a while, and I'm in the process of adding lights to make it easier to see my powder drops.
 
First off, I'm glad you are okay with no injuries.

Secondly, I don't own any magnum handguns, by choice. I prefer standard caliber cartridges for the enjoyment I get from shooting.

When I did own/shoot 357 and 44 magnums, always used slower powders such as W296.

I have been using TiteGroup in my 9mm with 115/124 gr. plated bullets and have been very happy with my results-functioning and accuracy. I sold 1 of the 3 pounds to a buddy, who I helped get set up to reload his own 9mm ammo; we order our bullets together and he has had very good luck with his load in his Springfield XD sub compact. I haven't tried TG in 38 spec. or 45 auto, but may in the future. My usual powder? Bullseye; another fast burning powder that requires very little per round. But again, standard cartridges, not magnums.

I started reloading about 35 years ago and had to learn on my own. I've never had a squib or an overcharge, and I intend to keep it that way. I don't load for speed; slow, steady, consistent and cautious-always paying attention and NO DISTRACTIONS!

Best of luck in future reloading, be safe-stay safe.
 
I agree with all of the reloading procedures precautions given but I think it is misplaced to blame the powder. Nor do I see much difference among the fast burning powders- Bullseye, Titegroup, etc. as to the caution required in their use. Titegroup is being marketed as an alternative to Bullseye and we see loads for almost every caliber. I've even used the load from Handloader for the 284 gr. 270SSA 45 Colt. You can fry an egg on the barrel after 6 rounds but, properly loaded, it works fine.

Titegroup has been available, in my neck of the woods, where no other pistol powders can be found. As the slower burning powders continue to become more available, we can switch back to powders that are better suited to the application at hand. However, I have to admit that I am grateful for Titegroup as a powder that has the ability to handle my diverse needs in a time when, without it, I may not have been shooting.
 
Titegroup is readily available here as well,I am glad it is.I have started using it for .44spl,.38spl and 9mm.I was using Unique before and am able to reproduce my old loads with TG.I like the Powders that can pretty much do everything except Magnums.I don't need 20 different Powders to eek out every last FPS or Inch on a grouping.
 
I called s&w, and I needed to send in the destroyed gun. I elected not too. It wasn't their fault. Didn't seem right trying to assign blame elsewhere.

I still use titegroup, but not for mags. 9, 38, 45, all good.
 
Last edited:
Thanks for being brave enough to post and allow us to benefit. Much appreciated. Glad your health is intact.
 
I agree with all of the reloading procedures precautions given but I think it is misplaced to blame the powder. Nor do I see much difference among the fast burning powders- Bullseye, Titegroup, etc. as to the caution required in their use. Titegroup is being marketed as an alternative to Bullseye and we see loads for almost every caliber. I've even used the load from Handloader for the 284 gr. 270SSA 45 Colt. You can fry an egg on the barrel after 6 rounds but, properly loaded, it works fine.

Titegroup has been available, in my neck of the woods, where no other pistol powders can be found. As the slower burning powders continue to become more available, we can switch back to powders that are better suited to the application at hand. However, I have to admit that I am grateful for Titegroup as a powder that has the ability to handle my diverse needs in a time when, without it, I may not have been shooting.

Well, everyone has a right to their opinion, but I will respectfully disagree. I've been reloading since 1983 and for 3 years ran a commercial reloading operation. I've run single stage to Camdex machines, and I've burned a LOT of powder. I've learned that some powders ARE better (or worse) than others.

Titegroup was marketed by Hodgdon as a "do-it-all" (usable in many cartridges for many light to medium load levels), low-charge weight (cost saving through more loads per pound), and particularly accurate (hence the name, but they quickly stopped making this claim within a year or two of it's introduction, interestingly...). As has been pointed out by others here, it burns HOT. It also is known as an unforgiving powder. I came across this latter aspect.

I learned as a commercial loader that, before I loaded 10,000 rounds of a particular load, I needed to test the powder, bullet, primer, case combination as well as searching the range of allowable variation, and that within that variation, everything was safe. In my three years, I never had a customer call and complain. So how did I find a load? Well... Ever notice how loading manuals never agree? That's due to both lot-to-lot variations (even of the same components), plus differences in testing equipment, plus minor variations in components (like using a different brand of primer or a Speer bullet, instead of a Sierra). You can also be sure that my (or your) lot of components is not the same as ANY of those labs used to come up with their data. BUT, if you look for the middle-of-the-road load from 5-6 loading manuals, you'll notice that they all get to about the same velocity. You want to find a load with YOUR set of components that gets to that velocity...

What I would do, is conduct a meta-search of all the loading manuals (I have a looooooong shelf full of them). I look for the typical velocity that tells me what my load should be producing, if my pressures are middle-of-the-road. Then I'd load my powder and I'd go for the middle of the road velocity. For example, for my 38 Spl. 158gr LRN, I wanted 770 fps after my meta-search. I loaded up 10 test rounds at each powder level (skipping about .3grs up and down in two steps), and when I found the powder charge that would give me my target velocity, I loaded over and under by 15% each. This way I made sure the 15% under-charge still pushed the bullet out, and that the 15% over didn't cause stuck cases. (It often would flatten primers, but I didn't want customers having to pound cases out with a rod and hammer...) If the powder I had wouldn't be safe at 15% over and/or not push the bullet out at 15% under, I'd move to a different powder, usually slower...

The reason I go over all of this, is because when I bought the one and only pound of Titegroup I ever bought, I ran this test with my 9mm and 38 Spl. loads. What I learned was that, Titegroup is, what I call, very "peaky." What I mean by that is that the difference between a middle-ground load and an over-pressure load is often 0.2grs in these small capacity cases. And by over-pressure, I mean flat primers on all, and pounding 1 or 2 out of 6 cases out of the cylinder with a brass rod. POINT 2 grains lower was a perfectly safe load, which gave just slightly higher than average velocities (800, rather than 770). When I tried it in 45ACP, similar problems happened, but the additional volume allowed .3 to .4 more grains before problems started.

I don't care for this. Frankly, I still have about 1/2 to 1/3 of the pound of powder, because I don't have use for a powder that acts this way. I'll probably burn it up in some 38 target loads with 148gr wadcutters, but it's just to get rid of it, because I won't use it for volume loading. Can this powder be used for effective loads? Sure. Is it forgiving and flexible? NOT by a long shot!

So, how does this involve Dutch? Well, just reading between the lines, but way back on page 2 or so, he stated he pulled the bullets on his handloads and found some cases empty and some with double charges and more. Obviously, there is a problem with the process here, because neither of those things should happen, and they are not the powder's fault. However, when you combine the process problems with an unforgiving powder, you have a recipe for disaster, and that's just what happened to Dutch. (By the by, Dutch, I am VERY happy you suffered no physical effects -- Other than nerves, I imagine they were shot for awhile. I hope their back to normal for you and you can enjoy our sport again!)

As far as the process goes, I started with a single stage press and hand-charging cases in a loading block. I was taught the age old trick of checking the loading block full of cases to see if the powder level was about the same in each and every case by going under a light and scanning each row of cases carefully. The problem on a progressive press, especially one that is manually indexed, is that the process has to be run just right, and there's no way distinct way to check one case against another for powder level. I now use a Dillon 650 (auto-indexed, so it forces the cases to move around the shellplate, making double-charging by neglecting to index impossible). Dillon sells a powder check die which sits in station 3 and can be set for your powder charge and will sound an alarm if it's too high or low. What I learned was that the alarm was too sensitive (sometimes it would alarm on the correct powder charge, or a VERY minor variation like .1gr difference), and the false alarms slowed the process too much. I now have removed the powder check die, and I replaced it with a small LED light that shines down into the case. Once you've seen 3-5 cases go around the wheel with powder in them, you can tell by eye if the powder level is about right. I LOOK at each and every powder charge I load (just like when I was doing single-stage and looking into the cases in the loading block), but I have the speed of the progressive. I've also found the Dillon measure is consistent within .1grs at pistol powder charge levels. Now, that doesn't mean I don't watch and just trust the powder measure. I STILL look down into each case and make sure there's "about the right amount" of powder in each case...
 
here is my wifes lady smith i blew up about 20 years ago. i was useing 2.7gr. of bullseye with a 148gr WC i never knew how i through a double charge. then one day i was reading many guns have blew from light charges of fast burning powder with air space in the case! to this day i see no way i through a double charge.
IMG_3339.jpg

Ah, the old spontaneous detonation rumor. Clearly, one of the most popular wadcutter loads ever produced in inherently dangerous because the powder is going to magically explode the case and cause gun failures. Did someone at Alliant design it that way?

I'm not trying to be mean but, it's somewhat easy to double charge Titegroup or Bullseye if you aren't paying attention. A double charge in a wadcutter would blow up that Lady Smith.
 
I don't think we are saying anything different. You have to be mindful of the rules and procedures for reloading. You have to know the materials you are working with. If I were a commercial reloader, I would have to think about the powder I used in a different way. If I was going to push the envelope on velocity and performance, i wouldn't use Titegroup. None of that says it is any better or worse than any other powder. If your circumstances make it a bad choice, don't use it. For some purposes, it works just fine if the person pulling the lever does his part. I have to think twice when I hear people making blanket statements about anything.
 
Back
Top