Blinking neighbors cats

Originally posted by sasu:
A person who cannot tolerate nature's creatures on his/her property, should sell the property and move into a nice, sterile city apartment. Why keep straining one's nerves when the solution is so simple: get rid of the property.

Living close to nature is for those people who have the self confidence, wisdom and character to coexist with other species. The other people are called city slickers and there are tall buildings and paved streets built just for them. Be honest to yourself when evaluating which group you belong to, and act accordingly.
Now THAT'S an "interesting" thesis. If you won't let others use and destroy your property without permission or compensation, you shouldn't have the property.

Nevermind that a housecat allowed to ruin others property isn't exactly a lion in the veldt, this betrays a profound contempt for the property rights of others. Following this line of "reasoning", I should be able to tack up a 50 foot slowfire target on your garage and practice with my K-38. After all, this is a nation of shooters. You can't expect me to pay money to shoot indoors. That's just not natural. Nor should I be forced to build a safe and proper range on my own land. I should be able to shoot on YOUR land, at any time of the day or night, whether you like it or not. I should be able to shoot birds and other wildlife without your permission too. I shouldn't have to clean up the used targets, cases or projectiles either. If this bothers you, you ought to move to a highrise in Manhattan or Chicago.

And by the way, my friend's problems were in a heavily developed subdivision of a suburb of Cleveland, Ohio, NOT the Tsavo game reserve.
 
Originally posted by redlevel:
Why do some of y'all insist on bringing terms like "the natural cycle" and "nature's creatures" into a discussion of free roaming cats? There is nothing "natural" about an introduced species entering a habitat.
They learned that on "Captain Planet"... kind of the way that most anti-gunners become firearms "experts" by watching "The A-Team".
 
Just down the road there's a guy who killed two feral cats because "they walked all over his car every night".

He is finishing out a hard nickle and has a few new tats and a husband now...

Don't do the crime if you can't do the time. The Judge you get just might like pets.
 
Some research on the impact of feral cats on wildlife populations.
http://www.thepetcenter.com/imtop/speaker3.html


Cats and Wildlife...
A Conservation Dilemma
By John S. Coleman, Stanley A. Temple
and Scott R. Craven

Observation of free-ranging domestic cats shows that some individuals can kill over 1000 wild animals per year [7], although smaller numbers are more typical. Some of the data on kills suggest that free-ranging cats living in small towns kill an average of 14 wild animals each per year. Rural cats kill many more wild animals than do urban, or suburban cats [8]. Several studies found that up to 90% of free-ranging rural cats' diet was wild animals, and less than 10% of rural cats killed no wild animals [9]. Recent research [10] suggests that rural free-ranging domestic cats in Wisconsin may be killing between 8 and 217 million birds each year. The most reasonable estimates indicate that 39 million birds are killed in the state each year. Nationwide, rural cats probably kill over a billion small mammals and hundreds of millions of birds each year. Urban and suburban cats add to this toll. Some of these kills are house mice, rats and other species considered pests, but many are native songbirds and mammals
whose populations are already stressed by other factors, such as habitat destruction and pesticide pollution.

Despite the difficulties in showing the effect most predators have on their prey, cats are known to have serious impacts on small mammals and birds. Worldwide, cats may have been involved in the extinction of more bird species than any other cause, except habitat destruction. Cats are contributing to the endangerment of populations of birds such as Least Terns, Piping Plovers and Loggerhead Shrikes. In Florida, marsh rabbits in Key West have been threatened by predation from domestic cats [11]. Cats introduced by people living on the barrier islands of Florida's coast have depleted several unique species of mice and woodrats to near extinction [12, 13].

Not only do cats prey on many small mammals and birds, but they can outnumber and compete with native predators. Domestic cats eat many of the same animals that native predators do. When present in large numbers, cats can reduce the availability of prey for native predators, such as hawks [14] and weasels [15].

Free-ranging domestic cats may also transmit new diseases to wild animals. Domestic cats have spread feline leukemia virus to mountain lions [16] and may have recently infected the endangered Florida Panther with feline panleukopenia (feline distemper) and an immune deficiency disease [17]. These diseases may pose a serious threat to this rare species. Some free-ranging domestic cats also carry several diseases that are easily transmitted to humans, including rabies and toxoplasmosis [18].

Domestic cats vs. native predators

Although cats make affectionate pets, many domestic cats hunt as effectively as wild predators. However, they differ from wild predators in three important ways: First, people protect cats from disease, predation and competition, factors that can control numbers of wild predators, such as bobcats, foxes, or coyotes. Second, they often have a dependable supply of supplemental food provided by humans and are, therefore, not influenced by changes in populations of prey. Whereas populations of native predators will decline when prey becomes scarce, cats receiving food subsidies from people remain abundant and continue to hunt even rare species. Third, unlike many native predators, cat densities are either poorly limited or not limited by territoriality [19]. These three factors allow domestic cats to exist at much higher densities than native predators. In some parts of rural Wisconsin, densities of free-ranging cats reach 114 cats per square mile. In these areas, cats are several times more abundant than all mid-sized native predators (such as foxes, raccoons, skunks) combined. With abundant food, densities can reach over 9 per acre, and cats often form large feeding and breeding "colonies" (81 cats were recorded in one colony, and colonies of over 20 are not uncommon) [20, 21]. Unlike some predators, a cat's desire to hunt is not suppressed by adequate supplemental food. Even when fed regularly by people, a cat's motivation to hunt remains strong, so it continues hunting [22].
 
Domestic cats are an evolutionary success story, just like dogs and pigs. They have evolved to live with people.
 
They haven't evolved to live with people, people made them live with them. If left alone in the wild, they wouldn't survive very long.

A couple years ago we moved from the inner part of town, where there was a serious overpopulation of cats, to the edge of the same town, where there is a serious overpopulation of cats. The woman that lived in our house didn't own any cats, but they all fed off the garbage she left outside. Now that they aren't getting that all the little baby squirrels, bunnies, birdies and etc. have disappeared. They aren't a part of nature, they destroy it.

I worked as a park ranger for a couple of years. We had two naturalists who were divided over the issue of cats that made their homes in the parks. One felt they should be left alone as they were now a part of "nature". The other felt they a nuisance, a danger and not natural at all. Since the pro cat person was the head naturalist, the cats stayed. Within a short time there were cats everywhere. There were too many to live off the wild animals and they started encrouching in the picnic areas more and more. Then we started getting complaints about them, the worst of which were children trying to catch them and getting bit or scratched. We then got a shoot on sight order.
 
Originally posted by sasu:
Domestic cats are an evolutionary success story, just like dogs and pigs. They have evolved to live with people.
So has rattus rattus.

You don't mind if my rats visit your kitchen, do you? You wouldn't set traps or anything. That would be "cruel"...
 
According to my scientific analysis, the consensus is: love your pets, but keep them home safe... right?

If you agree with me, then you will also agree that every thing that needed to be said has been said.
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Pete

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Originally posted by oldfella:
According to my scientific analysis, the consensus is: love your pets, but keep them home safe... right?
In the words of singer-songwriter David Byrne, stop making sense...
 
Originally posted by sasu:
Domestic cats are an evolutionary success story, just like dogs and pigs. They have evolved to live with people.

And your point is...?


First, one has to place his faith in evolution; for both evolution and creationism are taken on faith.

Second, neither, cats, dogs, pigs,cockroaches, zebra mussels, fire ants, kudzu, Johnson grass, or any other "evolutionary" success story deserves special status to intrude.

Some appear to think it'd almost be more moral to eradicate human kind in order that the earth could be "natural."

Domestic cats have their place, and it isn't necessarily on my property.
 
Originally posted by bmcgilvray:
Domestic cats have their place, and it isn't necessarily on my property.
Knowing cats, you have only one choice: let someone else have the property. Someone who knows he is to serve the cats.
 
Originally posted by sasu:
Originally posted by bmcgilvray:
Domestic cats have their place, and it isn't necessarily on my property.
Knowing cats, you have only one choice: let someone else have the property. Someone who knows he is to serve the cats.
A friend was once stopped in the mall by a survey taker. He was annoyed but bored, so he stuck around. She asked him, "What do you feed your cat?" He replied, "I feed my cat... to my dog."

Words to live by.
 
We are over run by feral/free-ranging cats.

I keep three Hav-a-Hart traps baited and we don't take prisoners.

Funny how folks talk about how much they like birds and other native species yet the same folks own several cats and let them roam like the mini-tigers they are.

I have NOTHING against cats. Keep them inside. I'm just great with you owning (or being owned by) a dozen.

Let that little killing machine out to roam. We got a problem.

Bob
 
Well, I didn't go through all gazillion pages, so I'll apologize if this has been posted.

Shake some red pepper where they "go". That will usually keep them away after the first sniff.
 
This thread is cracking me UP!! 18 pages!!!!! Cats?!

Coffee went up my nose twice reading it, kudos!

....aaaahh, I needed a good laugh this morning...
 
I looked the thread up for Barb's post about the auto sprinkler.I now have a black bird invasion and they are destroying my Key Limes.But I had to laugh at some of the post so I brought it up again.Interesting read for sure.
 
I don't have a problem with pets, strays or wild animals anymore, we did when I first moved here. The way it works for me, a havahart trap, the critter disappears, no problem. After a few months nothing. If problem resurfaces, process starts all over.
 
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