Blown case in my 38-44

[Louisiana Hayride]

Was out at the farm shooting my 38-44 today with some old ammo I've been sitting on a while.
On my third cylinder full I got an extremely loud report and a blast of gas in the face. This is the case from that round. At first I thought the cylinder bulged but it was fine. This is the second problem I've had with this box of ammo. A while back I got a squib load in my model 10 from a round out of this same box.
I'm just thankful I was shooting the 38-44 and not my detective special.
This box is at least 10 years old. So if you have any of it, be careful.

 

[JohnRippert]

I just do not have any faith in cheap Remington ammo any more. I still use Golden Sabre defensive ammo in my 9mm's but the practice stuff is lacking in QC IMO.

 

[merl67]

Are you absolutely sure they are not reloads?

 

[Louisiana Hayride]

Yeah, I'm sure. I don't reload 38 special. They either came from Walmart or academy.

 

[22hipower]

Odd, and disconcerting. Ten years isn't old for factory ammo. I still occasionally shoot stuff made shortly after WWII. If I had your experience I'd pull some of the bullets on the remaining ammo and weigh the powder as well as confirm that it still looks and smells right. To have a squibb and a over-pressure load in the same box isn't something I ever experienced. Depending on what I found I'd call Remington for some discussion,.

Jeff
SWCA #1457

 

[mckenney99]

Not sure that was an overpressure event. The case just looks more like a case failure/split, possibly a batch of brittle brass. What did the base of the case look like. Glad there was no injury or damage .

 

[Rlg#17]

Just a brass failure I would guess. Our agency used to carry the Remington "rose petal", 158 grain jhp round. We got a lot and upon testing them they split from the case mouth to a distance 2/3rd of the distance back to the case rim. Brand new, factory premium carry ammo…. Sent it back, took the credit, and switched to Federal jhps for the rest of the time we carried revolvers and never had that issue again.

But, two problems and you are still using the ammo? One and done should have been it with a box…. Remington has really suffered in the recent past! A shame because they used to be an outstanding company.

Not to be snarky, but how about not shoot anymore from that box, or anything with that lot number? Just a thought…

Regards from the Commonwealth,
Rick Gibbs

 

[Louisiana Hayride]

Of course I'm not still using this ammo. That's why I posted this here, to make it aware to anyone else that may have some of this around.
As I stated, the first problem was a squib load. That can happen with any cartridge. This failure happened yesterday afternoon and ended my target shooting for the day. Even without the failures, I would not carry this as a defensive load.
I did get quite a blast in the face, so if nothing else it should be a testament to wearing safety glasses.

 

[stansdds]

So one squib in this box of ammo and now one that split the case. Guess you know where the powder from the squib load went!



Your split case round might not have actually been the result of a double charge. Remington brass has earned a reputation for being on the soft side. I'm not a real fan of reloading Remington brass, but I have several hundred brand new R-P 357 Magnum cases that I bought years ago and I'll likely use them for reduced charge loads.

 

[LoboGunLeather]

To me this appears to be a typical case wall failure, which is not a terribly uncommon event.

The function of the cartridge case is to expand under pressure to seal the breach, directing the full force of expanding powder gases behind the bullet in the bore. If the cartridge brass is too malleable (soft) the case may be stuck in the chamber and difficult to remove. If the cartridge brass is too brittle (hard) it can fracture under pressure, allowing the expanding gases to vent through the chamber opening(s).

Another possibility would be a fault in the brass of the case wall sufficient to weaken the case wall but not severe enough to trigger quality control methods in use.

A final consideration might be the composition of the brass stock. Cartridge brass is typically 70% copper (soft, ductile) and 30% zinc (hard, brittle), although this varies from one manufacturer's spec to another. A relatively minor variation in the materials or alloying processes anywhere along the supply chain is a possibility (although detectible only by complex laboratory analysis). Manufacturing tolerances always provide a range of acceptable variations.

Whichever may be involved, a similar result might be expected. Might help to keep in mind that cartridge cases are manufactured by the billions every year, and the case-forming process (stamping, extruding, drawing, forming) applies considerable stress during the production processes. There is clearly a near-certainty of a small percentage of finished products having undetected flaws (regardless of manufacturer).

OP's description of the event seems to indicate a case rupture in the chamber with gas explosively expelled from the chamber, resulting in noticeable force on the shooter and noise appearing to be overly loud. All consistent with this type of event.

We wear protective equipment for a reason!

 

[H Richard]

I do recall several years ago getting some Remington 38's that had what AI thought was "brittle" brass, and split lengthwise. Any brass from then went in the trash. There was a group of us made a bulk purchase of once fired military brass, 45 ac[, I think it was 10,000 rounds, was a TZZ headstamp. Many of those split on the 2nd or 3rd re-loading. I pitched a bunch of them, but every once in awhile one turns up in my spent brass bucket.

 

[4barrel]

The gun may have a swelled cylinder. The tell tell sign is hard to eject.

 

[Old_Cop]

Usually, these splits are the result of work hardened brass which has seen too many reloadings. I believe that it was not the result of an overload, just brittle brass.

 

[Narragansett]

No doubt poor annealing.

 

[Wyatt Burp]

When you said old ammo I thought really old. I have a a couple hundred rounds of WW2 .30-06 ammo my dad had, and same caliber reloads his friend reloaded in the 60s. As tempting as it is to use it up I never will touch it. My only '06 is a Springfield 1903A3. I'm sure glad your fine HD and you are OK.

 

[rincar]

Take that box of ammo and any from the same lot number that you have. Find a deep River or Lake and drop them in preferably one round at a time. No more problems.

 

[22hipower]

A number of comments here suggesting that the load was not overpressure, not an excessive charge, rather the case simply split. I've had that happen a number of times after loading cases several times, as Old Cop notes above. However, the OP reports that he got "an extremely loud report and a blast of gas in the face." I don't remember that happening, normally I didn't even notice the cracked cases until processing them again for reloading. I think I'd pull some bullets and weigh and check the powder. Even if all looks ok Remington needs to know about it and likely will replace your box of ammo; I've known that to happen in the past although not necessarily with Remington.

Jeff
SWCA #1457

 

[handejector]

A number of comments here suggesting that the load was not overpressure, not an excessive charge, rather the case simply split. I've had that happen a number of times after loading cases several times, as Old Cop notes above. However, the OP reports that he got "an extremely loud report and a blast of gas in the face." I don't remember that happening, normally I didn't even notice the cracked cases until processing them again for reloading. I think I'd pull some bullets and weigh and check the powder. Even if all looks ok Remington needs to know about it and likely will replace your box of ammo; I've known that to happen in the past although not necessarily with Remington.

Jeff
SWCA #1457

An excellent point.
In the 80s, I worked for a commercial reloading company. We loaded millions of rounds per year. With that volume, we wound up with lots of rounds loaded in split cases. Some had been missed in sorting, but most split during the sizing or crimping or final sizing. They had reached their limit and the final working caused them to split.
The scrap brass we sold amounted to many hundreds of dollars per year, but it had to be pure brass with no lead. So, I shot all those loaded rounds that had split cases. They ranged from 38 WC to 44 mag. Never a problem except slightly smoked up chambers. No louder reports and no gas in my face. Most heavier loads obturated and the chambers were hardly dirtier than normal. 38 WC ammo often does not obturate efficiently anyway because of the mild load and the chambers get quite smoky even with new ammo.

It was free ammo, and I shot thousands of rounds with split cases.

 

[DETROIT]

Odd, and disconcerting. Ten years isn't old for factory ammo. I still occasionally shoot stuff made shortly after WWII. If I had your experience I'd pull some of the bullets on the remaining ammo and weigh the powder as well as confirm that it still looks and smells right. To have a squibb and a over-pressure load in the same box isn't something I ever experienced. Depending on what I found I'd call Remington for some discussion,.

Jeff
SWCA #1457

I agree with Jeff. while 10 yrs is not old for ammo, if the ammo was stored in and area the had temperature changes could cause these failures.

To be safe I would measure the chambers.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

An excellent point.
In the 80s, I worked for a commercial reloading company. We loaded millions of rounds per year. With that volume, we wound up with lots of rounds loaded in split cases. Some had been missed in sorting, but most split during the sizing or crimping or final sizing. They had reached their limit and the final working caused them to split.
The scrap brass we sold amounted to many hundreds of dollars per year, but it had to be pure brass with no lead. So, I shot all those loaded rounds that had split cases. They ranged from 38 WC to 44 mag. Never a problem except slightly smoked up chambers. No louder reports and no gas in my face. Most heavier loads obturated and the chambers were hardly dirtier than normal. 38 WC ammo often does not obturate efficiently anyway because of the mild load and the chambers get quite smoky even with new ammo.

It was free ammo, and I shot thousands of rounds with split cases.

Sometimes my much loaded .357 brass will split down the side....Never ever had a gas blow back. I just toss "em" and keep on going. BTW. More so with nickel cases than brass cases. I don't consider it a big deal.