Bore size 38 S&W?

[H Richard]

I have a recently acquired pre-victory, and the cylinder had been bored to accept 38 Specials. Since the 38 S&W chamber is about 9/1000 larger in diameter than the 38 Special, the cases bulge out with even light loads. When I fire 38 S&W loads the forward edge of the newly cut 38 special chamber strips lead off the 38 S&W bullet. The piece is nice enough (5")Australian return that I want it to shoot properly. Bore is near mint. Is the bore size of a 38 S&W larger that a 38 Special? The only reloading manual I have that listed 38 S&W was an old Speer, and that showed the bullet size as .360 rather than .357. If the bore is .003 larger, I would plan to replace the cylinder with a .38 S&W cylinder, but if it is .357 I would replace the cylinder with a .38 Special cylinder.

I guess I could "slug" the barrel and see, just don't have any soft lead bullets on hand to do it with, and if it is larger, the slug may not fill the groves to give an accurate reading.

 

[H Richard]

I have a recently acquired pre-victory, and the cylinder had been bored to accept 38 Specials. Since the 38 S&W chamber is about 9/1000 larger in diameter than the 38 Special, the cases bulge out with even light loads. When I fire 38 S&W loads the forward edge of the newly cut 38 special chamber strips lead off the 38 S&W bullet. The piece is nice enough (5")Australian return that I want it to shoot properly. Bore is near mint. Is the bore size of a 38 S&W larger that a 38 Special? The only reloading manual I have that listed 38 S&W was an old Speer, and that showed the bullet size as .360 rather than .357. If the bore is .003 larger, I would plan to replace the cylinder with a .38 S&W cylinder, but if it is .357 I would replace the cylinder with a .38 Special cylinder.

I guess I could "slug" the barrel and see, just don't have any soft lead bullets on hand to do it with, and if it is larger, the slug may not fill the groves to give an accurate reading.

 

[Chef]

The .38 S&W cal (.361 cal) is larger than the .38 spcl (.357 cal)

Regards, Chef

 

[H Richard]

Thanks. Looks like I order a 38 S&W cylinder from Numerich instead of the 38 Spec. Happen to know where I can buy .361+ bullets to load?

 

[nsajorden]

H Richard,
The 38S&W is as stated 0.361. Please remember that a 38 Sp. has a much higher preasure than the 38S&W. A +p+ 38Sp. will blow the gun.
Try 38 Long Colt with bullseye and bullets at 0.360. I use 125gr swc with 4.0 grs of bullseye.
Have your sizing die opened to your chamber size. This will save your brass. Starline Brass make great brass in 38 Long Colt.
DAVE........................

 

[H Richard]

I'm well aware of the strength of this old piece. The 38 Spec I shot in it were 2.8 gr Bullseye behind a 148 gr WC. Still asking, where can I get some .360/.361 dia. lead bullets?

Is there something different about these old models? I just tried to remove the cylinder, and after removing the front sideplate screw the crane will not slide out of the frame. I have quite a number of other Smiths of various vintage, and never had a hand ejector where the cylinder crane wouldn't slide out of the frame. I never force any gun part, so I quit until I am sure.

 

[cgt4570]

I got lucky and found several boxes of vintage Remington lead round nose bullets in .360 on Ebay a few years ago. I don't know of anyone who makes them today. You could probably find a mold and cast your own.

As long as it's soft lead, standard .357-358 bullets will 'bump up' to fit the slightly larger bore and should shoot just fine.

Chris

 

[Art Doc]

I don't have a S&W in .38 S&W (still looking for that Terrier at a price I can pay) but I load this caliber for a Webley. I use lead .357" bullets and they shoot just fine in my gun. In fact they shoot pretty darn good for an old military pistol using undersized bullets.

Someone once suggested that lead bullets will upset or swell a tad at the base when fired and will fill the bore. I dunno, but the .357 bullets work OK for me. Try them.

 

[canoeguy]

Beartooth Bullets (208) 437- 1865 offers .360 diameter bullets, I got some from them for reloading for my .38 S&W Victory models. I found that I got no better accuracy from them than I did using .357 diameter 158 grain LSWC. I got the 200 grain LBTFN gas check bullets at $15.50 per box of 100. Loaded them with 3.0 grains Unique. I think they offer .360 diameter bullets in lower weights than 200 grain.

The 200 grain bullets did shoot to what was probably the original point of aim, a little high at 25 yards (2"), dead on at 50 yards.

My 158 grain LSWC load is 3.1 grains Unique.

148 grain DEWC were accurate, but shoot too low, like 3" low at 15 yards.

 

[HKSmith]

Penn Bullets offers some of their .38's in .360 diameter. My favorite load, however, is to use any of the soft swaged 148 grain hollow base wadcutters. These easily expand to fill the rifling so you don't have to worry about bullet diameter. I load them in .38 S&W cases to a COL of 1.12 inches, which means that about half the bullet is sticking out of the case, unlike the .38 Special wadcutter loads that are seated flush with the case mouth. My Victory model is not rechambered.

I'm currently using 2.6 grains of Bullseye and Hornady wadcutters. These also cut a nice full-caliber hole in the target. I do not use this load in breaktop revolvers, only hand ejectors.

Someone mentioned the fact that .38 Special pressures are higher than .38 S&W. While this is true, the Victory model was made of exactly the same materials in both calibers for the U.S. and British military respectively, so there's no difference in the strength of the guns - the difference is the chamber size and bore diameter. I also don't know what +P+ means, as that's not a defined SAAMI term.

 

[H Richard]

+P+ or +P would be inappropriate for a Victory. While they would probably stay together, it's too much pressure on it. Especially when you don't know what it may have been subjected to since 1942.

 

[Chef]

Hi HR,
I had some lead bullets cast for me by
www.blackjackhill.com in .38 caliber and he left them unsized. The are a consistant .361.
Good Luck, ~Chef

 

[H Richard]

Just checked their website. Evidently they are in the process of moving, and not accepting any orders at this time. Maybe by April.

 

[Deacon KC]

Maybe you could size some Makarov cast bullets [.365 diameter] to .361. It would be a light load for the gun, but probably a lot of fun to shoot. They run about 95 grains.

 

[HKSmith]

Try www.pennbullets.com. They offer several .38 caliber bullets sized to .360. The 140 grain flat nose would be a good choice for .38 S&W or .38 Special.

 

[cxm]

I load quite a few .38 S&W rounds... I looked wide and hard for .360 bullets... without luck.

In frustration I tried .357 dia. bullets... and to my surprise they worked fine...were accurate and didn't tumble.

FWIW

CHuck

Originally posted by H Richard:
Thanks. Looks like I order a 38 S&W cylinder from Numerich instead of the 38 Spec. Happen to know where I can buy .361+ bullets to load?

 

[Dave_n]

King Shooters Supply in King of Prussia, PA will cast 360 in 180 grain for you. Just do a Google Search. Dave_n

 

[Art Doc]

So far 800 rounds of +P and 400 rounds of +P+ (don't know what else to call them) have not caused any harm to my Victory Model in .38 Special.

But maybe I got the one strong one?

 

[H Richard]

If I had a 38 Special sized cylinder for mine, I wouldn't hesitate +P. I shoot +P in my 10 (No dash) all the time and no problems. (By the way, I think the grips on it I got from you Dr.)

Since the barrel is marked 38 S&W, I am going to keep it that way, probably with a new cylinder without having been bored out. I have plenty of other .38's to shoot.

 

[Art Doc]

Need dies? I have a set of Lymans I have been trying to sell for about two years.