Bought my first RCBS dies

[Clovishound]

I started off reloading with Lee products mainly because I was on a tight budget back then. I'm not rolling in money these days, but I no longer have to agonize over an additional $20 or $30 anymore.

Anyway, I've been dithering about whether to get the dies and supplies for the 30-06 chambered Columbian Mauser I got for Christmas. Clovispup and I decided to drive to the outdoor range this week, so the lure of shooting further than 25 yds tipped the scales.

I leaned toward ordering a Lee 3 die set with the FCD, like my .223 dies. LGS has RCBS dies at a very attractive price, and I could make some ammo in time for our outing. So they went home with me. Something in the back of my mind said it would be good to try a different brand.

I got them home and opened them up. Initial impression is that they are very well made. They have the look and feel of good solid machining. Fortunately, I discovered at the store that they don't include a shell holder, so I sprang the extra $ and bought one before being even more disappointed and having to make an additional trip.

I got off work early last night, so I decided to set them up and make some ammo. The first thing I noticed was that I needed multiple tools for every adjustment I make. Again, I'm used to Lee dies where nearly every adjustment is made without reaching for a tool. I can see where the locking rings would appeal to the single stage owners. For my turret press, I prefer the tool free o ring "locks". I also noticed you have to be careful when tightening the lock nuts so you don't change the adjustment.

The other thing I noticed was what a pain it is to adjust the crimp and seat in one operation. I'm used to doing just that in my .38 dies, but had real issues trying to get things right with these dies. The collet style crimp has a lot of advantages. I don't have to trim all my cases to the same length, just make sure they are within tolerance range. I can also just dial in a light, medium or heavy crimp, with no fear of overcrimping. The instructions with the RCBS says to measure the case near the base and then near the mouth. There should be a .001 to .002 difference. I kept measuring and tweaking with no observable difference until I begain buckling the case. Back to square one. I will likely invest in a separate FCD.

Bottom line, these are well made, well machined dies that should produce quality ammo.

I wish I had waited and gotten the Lee dies, though.

Some of that may be a result of my cutting my teeth on Lee dies.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

You can sell the RCBS dies and buy Lee but I would not. I use Lee dies for all my handgun loading but I use mostly RCBS for loading rifle cartridges with some Lee and Hornady dies thrown in too.

There is really no good reason to crimp rifle cartridges unless they are being shot in a rifle with a tubular magazine. Just because our turret presses have 4 holes doesn't mean we have to use them all lol.

You can replace the lock rings if you want too.

 

[AveragEd]

Trust me, you just bought much better dies than Lee. And adjusting that seating die is easy.

Screw the die into your press part-way and insert a case with a bullet in its mouth in the shell holder. Raise the shell all the way and then turn the die's seating stem down until it contacts the bullet. Then lower the shell a little and turn the seating stem down, raise the shell and repeat until the bullet is seated as desired. Then raise the stem and lower the die until the crimping ring contacts the shell. Keep turning the die downward and raising the shell until the crimp is properly adjusted. Lock the die in place and finally, with the shell up in the die, turn the seating stem down until it contacts bullet and lock it in place.

It takes longer to type and read that than the actual process.

I only owned a set of Lee dies briefly as loading one 50-round box of handgun ammo with them was all it took to show me how much better RCBS and Reddings are. Yes, they might take a little longer to set up but the time is well worth it.

Ed

 

[gwpercle]

They're just different , once you get used to them they will be fine.
I learned with the old school dies and thought Lee dies were messed up. Once I got used to how they work , no more problems.
Every manufacturer's dies work differently , so don't be surprised if you get another makers set and things are different from the Lee and RCBS dies. Good news is they will all work.
Gary

 

[Clovishound]

Trust me, you just bought much better dies than Lee. And adjusting that seating die is easy.

Screw the die into your press part-way and insert a case with a bullet in its mouth in the shell holder. Raise the shell all the way and then turn the die's seating stem down until it contacts the bullet. Then lower the shell a little and turn the seating stem down, raise the shell and repeat until the bullet is seated as desired. Then raise the stem and lower the die until the crimping ring contacts the shell. Keep turning the die downward and raising the shell until the crimp is properly adjusted. Lock the die in place and finally, with the shell up in the die, turn the seating stem down until it contacts bullet and lock it in place.

It takes longer to type and read that than the actual process.

I only owned a set of Lee dies briefly as loading one 50-round box of handgun ammo with them was all it took to show me how much better RCBS and Reddings are. Yes, they might take a little longer to set up but the time is well worth it.

Ed

That's what I've been doing. I can't seem to get the crimp to my satisfaction. When I screw it down close to buckling the case, I still don't get good holding power. I can tap the case hard a couple times on the bench, and the bullet sets back in the case. I'm afraid I will get set back in the blind mag.

I'm starting to wonder if the neck sizer on the decap pin is too large giving me insufficient neck tension.

I will borrow my buddy's Lee FCD and try crimping them with a known quantity.

I played around with it for a while this morning. Even the hardest crimped ones that I ended up pulling only took a single, not too hard a rap with the kinetic to disassemble them. I'm used to two to three really hard knocks to get bullets out.

It might be me, but I'm beginning to regret getting these dies.

 

[Federalis]

You will not go wrong with these dies or any RCBS products. I've used their "stuff" for 40+ years and they've sent me many parts, de-capping pins, etc., most times free! I think I have at least a dozen of their die sets and yes several Lee sets also. Experiment a little and you'll have no problems at all...

 

[AveragEd]

What he said. If in doubt, call RCBS and explain your dilemma. I'll bet they get you fixed up PDQ!

Ed

 

[Clovishound]

I just got through trying to find the most crimp without risk of buckling. I ended up with something that still isn't as tight as I would like, but I could bounce the completed round a couple times hard on the bench with only minimal set back. I recrimped all completed rounds and will try them out tomorrow at the range. Wednesday, I get together with my buddy, and I will borrow his FCD die and try that.

 

[Clovishound]

Just got back from the range. Forgot my bench rest, so not sure how accurate they really are. Other than that, they fired fine. Primers looked good, no feed or extraction problems. Didn't remember to bring a set of calipers, so don't know if they set back. I did line one up with a reference round, and run a couple through with it in the mag. Then compared it back to the reference round. I couldn't eyeball any setback. I will borrow my buddy's FCD tomorrow and reload these empty cases.

Gotta get a recoil pad for this beast. The solid rubber pad it has now is rock hard.

 

[Rule3]

Does RCBS still use the brass set screws to lock the die rings?

If so the brass set screws will eventually strip. Their solution is to send you a bag of set screws and a bunch of lead shot to act as a buffer and lock into the threads.

Did you clean (degrease) them before using to get the machining oil off of them?

Regardless they are very well made dies and will last forever.

 

[Clovishound]

Yes, they still have the brass set screws. For a locking ring, I prefer the Hornady style with the split rings that tighten the entire ring on the threads.

No, I didn't degrease them first. I didn't notice any oil on them, and didn't have any degreaser handy. I've never needed to degrease any of my previous dies. Perhaps I'll go degrease them now, I doubt it will make any difference after having run a couple dozen cases through them.

 

[Clovishound]

OK, I went ahead and cleaned the dies. Don't think it made any difference, as they appeared very clean, only a little stuff on the expander ball. Looked like dried lube and carbon.

I got to thinking. I know, dangerous. I normally process my .223 brass, using water based lube, in advance. It has plenty of time to dry and, since I use very little, leaves very little of anything behind.

I was processing these 30-06 cases and loading them straight away. There is an extremely thin layer of lube still in there. Doubt it's much after pushing and pulling the expander ball through it. I went ahead and cleaned the inside of the neck and loaded a couple. After loading I whacked them pretty hard against the bench with no set back at all. I guess I need to either process ahead of time and let the necks dry, or clean the necks prior to loading. I'll probably go with the latter, as there may be some residue from trimming the necks in there as well.

It's not like I will be loading a hundred or two of these at a time.

 

[Drm50]

I've got 100+ sets of dies, 75% of them are RCBS. The rest are
Lyman, Texan, Pacific, C&H, Bonanza, Redding and a few others.
I own no Lees or Hornadys- don't want none.
I also have about that many bullet molds, Lyman-Ideal, RCBS,
SAECO, Rapine and 1 Lee.
The used market is glutted with top quality dies that can be had
for $20, in the common calibres. A die is a precision tool. Once
you get use to standard dies you will set and lock the rings with
out thinking about it. There is no comparison between the RCBS
and Lees.

 

[SMSgt]

I've never found a need to crimp .30-06 rounds for a bolt-action rifle.

 

[Clovishound]

Sorry, but this will probably be the last RCBS dies I purchase.

I have had a much better experience with my Lee dies. Much easier to set up and adjust, and once adjusted they stay that way on my turret plates. The collete style crimp die is much superior for rifle calibers IMO. Very easy to dial the level of crimp desired. Will not buckle cases, and trim length is not critical. With my Lee dies, as long as the length is within limits, it's good to go. The RCBS literature states several times that consistent trim length is critical to consistent crimps.

 

[Nevada Ed]

I would not worry about the crimping of 30-06 bullets.

The only "Hunting bullet" that I crimp is the Remington Cor-Lokt 150gr.
The "GI" FMJ can be crimped if they have a cannelure but most that
shot a bolt action, do not crimp their loads.

Just do not over stress, tighten, the hex, Philips or standard screw driver head and you dies will last a long, long time.

 

[AveragEd]

The RCBS literature states several times that consistent trim length is critical to consistent crimps.

And if you would take a second to think about it, they are right. If your cases are all different lengths, they are going to extend more and less farther into the die and those that extend the farthest will be crimped more than the shorter ones. Come on man!

How can you possibly experience problems with RCBS dies not staying in adjustment??? They lock in place and if locked correctly, cannot move!

You are seem to be hung up on the price points of the two brands. Yes, RCBS dies (and, I think, every other brand) cost more than Lee. There's a reason for that - you get what you pay for. Try to sell a set of used Lee dies. I did - it took a while and I had to basically give them away AND pay for the shipping to unload a set of carbide dies I used one time. On top of that, they were for a cartridge for which dies are not easily found (which is why I wound up with them in the first place) so it wasn't like there were multiple sets for sale on the same sites on which mine were listed.

What tools you chose to use matters not to any of us. We're just trying to give you good advice and mean no offense.

By the way, why do you crimp cartridges for a bolt-action rifle?

Ed

 

[Clovishound]

Well, I'm not hung up on price point. I already shelled out for these dies, I didn't pay much more for them than a 3 die set of Lee's, but I am very disappointed in their performance.

As to crimping them, the issue for me is if the bullets are loose enough in the case that I can easily get the bullets to move by rapping the base on the bench a time or two, then they are likely to set back when in the blind magazine after firing a few rounds. The recoil on this beast is very high.

I think I may have the issue under control, although none of my other calibers have bullets this loose in the case, even after I have it to the point that I feel I won't have a issue with set back in use.

I am not having an issue with them coming out of adjustment. That is not one of my complaints about these dies. The locking ring does a good job of holding the die in place. I don't care much for having to look up the allen wrench any time I may have to readjust it, although I shouldn't have to do that very often. The main thing I would have to readjust in use is the seating depth, if I change bullet profile.


I've never had these kinds of problems with other dies, and just don't care for the way they are adjusted, aside from the other issue I had.

Another issue is crimped primers. Don't know if there is any military brass out there with crimped primers, but I would not attempt to deprime them with these dies. Too much of a chance of breaking, bending the decapping pin. The collete holding the pin on my Lee .223 die will allow the pin to slip before breaking or bending. The threaded adjuster on the pin in these dies will not slip under excess pressure.

I was prepared to like these dies when I bought them.

 

[LoboGunLeather]

My RCBS dies (8 or 9 sets so far) date back to the days when each die was stamped with a date code, and mine are all from the 1960's to 1970's. All continue to work flawlessly after many thousands of rounds produced. Excellent products.

As others have pointed out, there is seldom any need for crimping rifle cartridges unless you are dealing with tubular magazine rifles or extremely high-recoil rifles (which .30-06 is not when used in a 7-9 pound bolt-action military rifle). If a crimp is required or desired there are a few steps required to obtain optimal results:

1. Use only bullets that are produced with a crimping cannelure or recess. Jacketed bullets without a built-in means for crimping cannot be crimped by roll crimping processes, and any attempt to do so will damage bullet or brass (or both), usually leaving the bullet loose and wobbly in the case neck.
2. All brass must be trimmed to matching (and precise) length. Overlooking this will overcome any further attempts to satisfactory results.
3. Set up the seating die to seat the bullet to desired COL without engaging the crimping function. Then back off the seating stem completely, carefully run the seating die down to the point at which crimping begins, slowly increase crimping until you have the necessary engagement. Then run the seating stem down to engage the bullet nose and lock in place. If you plan on using the same bullets and brass in the future it is helpful to make up a dummy cartridge (unprimed empty case with bullet seated and crimped) which can be used to quickly and easily set up the seating die in the future.

If you don't like the RCBS locking nuts you can easily replace them with others (such as O-ring type, etc), as the thread dimensions are standard.

 

[gwpercle]

Clovishound , sounds like the sizer isn't sizing the neck down enough or the expander is expanding the neck too much.
Size a case without the expander in place and see if it will hold a bullet. If so , the culprit could be the neck expander. Choice : call RCBS and see if they will send you proper sized replacement or turn the expander down to a smaller diameter. Use larger diameter bullets (just kidding ).

People complain about Lee products but the fact is , for the price you get a pretty good product. Just about every thing I have purchased in the last 20 years have been Lee and I haven't had any problems with anything.
Gary