Learn from My Mistake on Lee Rings

[AJ]

Lee should put a warning that their dies are NOT for use in coaxial type presses like Forster's

Lee would probably call that a misuse of their product. As it is meant to be used in their press.

 

[rockquarry]

How I fell into this mishap was what pilots call the "normalization of deviation". I like to try new calibers and new stuff in reloading. I too deferred heavy reforming work to an old "C" press, but the new case lubes enticed me to try reforming .308 Win to 300 Sav on my Coax. I did some full length resizing of 8x57 Mauser using first Lee white case lube, then Hornady. I was surprised at how easy it was, and easy case cleanup was a bonus. Progress with new case lube.

I pushed my luck to try resizing .308 Win to 300 Sav with the new lube. I was pleasantly surprised at the low effort, not nearly enough to make me think I was overstressing the Coax press. Reforming .308 to 300 Sav is not a big deal, only setting back the shoulder 0.032 in., but I was fatigue stressing those meager 2-1/2 threads in the Lee die. When I got the busted stuff sorted out I checked a few of the reformed .308 cases and sure enough they didn't have their shoulders set back far enough, even though the die was set up correctly, at least at first. The threads were deflecting more on every stoke. Another interesting tidbit is that the Lee lock ring failed when pulling out the reformed case, not the much heavier forming stroke. That last deformation of the threads pushed it over the fatigue limit.

Lee should put a warning that their dies are NOT for use in coaxial type presses like Forster's

I've formed .300 Savage brass from .308 many decades ago. I don't recall the press I used but it was probably a long gone RCBS Jr. that I had used for many years. As I recall, I also had to turn case necks as the necks were too thick after the forming procedure. The neck thickness on your cases may be fine, but it's worth checking.

 

[ms]

Just like

How I fell into this mishap was what pilots call the "normalization of deviation". I like to try new calibers and new stuff in reloading. I too deferred heavy reforming work to an old "C" press, but the new case lubes enticed me to try reforming .308 Win to 300 Sav on my Coax. I did some full length resizing of 8x57 Mauser using first Lee white case lube, then Hornady. I was surprised at how easy it was, and easy case cleanup was a bonus. Progress with new case lube.

I pushed my luck to try resizing .308 Win to 300 Sav with the new lube. I was pleasantly surprised at the low effort, not nearly enough to make me think I was overstressing the Coax press. Reforming .308 to 300 Sav is not a big deal, only setting back the shoulder 0.032 in., but I was fatigue stressing those meager 2-1/2 threads in the Lee die. When I got the busted stuff sorted out I checked a few of the reformed .308 cases and sure enough they didn't have their shoulders set back far enough, even though the die was set up correctly, at least at first. The threads were deflecting more on every stoke. Another interesting tidbit is that the Lee lock ring failed when pulling out the reformed case, not the much heavier forming stroke. That last deformation of the threads pushed it over the fatigue limit.

Lee should put a warning that their dies are NOT for use in coaxial type presses like Forster's

Just like McDonald's should have warned not to pour hot coffee on your crotch.

 

[Skeet 028]

REAL dies have positive locking rings. But for inexpensive reloading Lees are a great alternative. I have both RCBS and Lees. When I started accumulating calibers that I didn't shoot so often or to reload for friends, I go with Lees

I like the thought about inexpensive Lee Dies... Luckily I have beaucoup lock rings and don't need to buy steel rings. That said. The difference in the price is not all that great these days. Yes I have a few sets of Lee dies. I mean for 20 dollars difference?? I used to use the Lee collet dies in some rifle calibers...They resized without work hardening. But any more I buy dies off the tables of dealers at gun shows etc. Recently bought a set of new RCBS 30 cal carbine Carbide dies at a pawn shop for 30 bucks... Haven't paid retail for a set of dies other than a 45 Colt set by Lee...and a week later I bought a set of Redding carbides in 45 Colt at a garage sale...35 bucks. I have used the Lees in one of my T-7 turrets and they work ok. The Redding's are on a Dillon 550 Tool head. At one garage sale i bought two sets of Dillon carbide dies in 308 and 223 for a 100 dollars..Less than the cost of one Carbide set from Dillon. The trick is you have to really look...and make offers
BTW In years past It seems Lee used dies threaded 7/8x14 but they seemed to have some play threading. Newer Lee's seem to adhere to true 7/8x14 threads these days...but I would still change out the lock rings

 

[BRL40]

...but I replace them with set-screw type steel rings simply because they position more consistently and do not easily go out of adjustment like the LEE rings do....

Bingo!
Just ordered a set of generic lock rings from Amazon because sometimes I screw down the die body to the press and forget to finalize it using the ring only and of course the ring stops and the die keeps going...goodbye adjustment.
That's probably why Lee dies are usually priced somewhat lower than most other brands but I would prefer a locking ring for a few bucks more.

 

[rosewood]

There is your problem. The Lee lock ring isn't designed or intended for supporting load. They are merely for keeping the dies from loosening when using. Inserting in the Forster requires something more substantial. Good information, it is something I had never considered, but I don't have a Forster either.

That being said, I do all my sizing of rifle on a Lee Challenger Breech Lock press. The Breech Lock bushings are all steel for the die to screw into.

Rosewood

 

[WR Moore]

A tip I read decades ago about conventional lock ring set screws has worked VERY well. You drop a small soft lead shot into the set screw hole before inserting the set screw. When you lock it down, the lead upsets into the threads and provides both thread protection and a positive lock. Use steel set screws, not brass.

 

[gwpercle]

Once I looked carefully at the photo's of the Lee dies / rings / Co-Ax Press I realized the dies don't screw into the press ... the rings bear the brunt of the force ... any die with aluminum rings would be subject to failure .
Never owned a Co-Ax ... and didn't understand it's method of operation .
Now I got it ! Very Interesting Thread ...
Gary

 

[rwsmith]

Thread drift.....

I use Bag Balm to lube my brass. It has lanolin in it and is very good for
your hands. It's used on cows teats when they get sore from milking.
A can of it should last you many years.

My wife worked at the post office. Bag Balm was the cure for 'letter sorting hands'. Do they still make 'Corn Huskers' lotion?

To get back on the thread topic. That's very interesting how the Forster system works. My friend has an old system of some make that operates differently from most presses. When I see it again, I'll get the dope and post it.

 

[ms]

The manual for the press specifies the use of Forster rings, which are made of aluminum. It says the use of harder steel rings may cause wear of the press. I've had a co ax press for around 50 years, and have used both Forster and Hornady (steel) rings with no obvious problems.

 

[mikld]

I have been a machinist/mechanic for about 50 years. Last employment was wit a large city fleet maintenance (heavy equipment). We were often trained by various vendors on use of products. One such training was nuts and bolts. Locking devices were covered. One was an O-ring locking nut. I had seen them before on shop machinery and realized how many reloaders are not familiar with this type of lock nut. The o-ring exerts an upward force applying pressure to the threads and keeping the nut from turning. Old technology but still viable. Using Lee dies for 40+ years I have never had a problem with dies loosening and never neded a wrench on the lock nuts.

 

[GB]

While not my favorite brand, I do use some Lee die sets. In my opinion, the lock rings that Lee uses have always been the weak link in the process. As a fix, I have switched them out with other brands of lock rings, usually RCBS because that is what I use most of and what goes on sale most often. Fixed the problem for me. Before too many folks chastise me for not understanding how the Lee system works, let me just say: Reloading equipment is kind of like underware. Everybody has different styles and they tend to use the brand that fits their style best. This is what works for me and your mileage may very!

 

[Warren Sear]

Not on a Forster Co Ax press. Dies do not thread into the press.

Got it now! Thanks.