J. R. WEEMS
Member
Had to fully strip my Brazilian all the way down. Discovered a ball detent in the crane. is this factory? or someones add on? just curious. 
Thanks
Thanks
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BRAZILIAN
- Thread starter J. R. WEEMS
- Start date
Certainly not factory, pulled mine out of the safe just to make sure.
Edit
Learn something new all the time!
Edit
Learn something new all the time!
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Had to fully strip my Brazilian all the way down. Discovered a ball detent in the crain. is this factory? or someones add on? just curious.
If you are talking about the cylinder hold open spring loaded pin, yes, it is factory. Is your Brazilian from the 1st or the 2nd shipment? Generally, the ones from the first shipment had the flat top frame and the square notch rear sight.
OP
J. R. WEEMS
Member
I suspect it is factory. The 1917's had the spring/ball detent to aid in keeping the cylinder open during reloading. I presume this would be true of the guns from the Brazilian contract.
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It's factory.
Cyl/yoke detent hold open device:
A classic old feature to keep the cyl open when loading/unloading and prevent it from slamming closed if the gun is tipped to the right slightly and scratching the recoil shield with the extractor star. Not to mention pinching a fingertip or two.
The cylinder hold open device or detent was introduced on the very 1st hand ejector, the ".32 HE Model 1896, 1st Model" thru the “.32 HE Model of 1903 – 2nd Model” thru 1904. It was used and continued in pre WWI K frames beginning on the “38 M&P Model of 1899” thru at least the “38 M&P Model of 1902 – 1st Change”, and also the N frames beginning with the 1908 44 Triple Lock.
By the Mar 10, 1919 change order: all cyl hold open detents in all frame sizes had been ordered eliminated. However, likely due to many surplus Model 1917 yokes being used from inventory, they are still found in most N frames pre WWII, and even thru some post war Transitional N frame HEs.
Another example of old world panache Smith was known for that we won't ever see again. And a very useful, easy to add device to any later model Hand Ejector.
Important Note: when you remove the yoke beware of the cyl detent pin and spring! If you aren't careful, it can launch across the room to no man knows where! If it's missing, that's likely what happened to it.
Also they were never installed in any "cranes", S&W Hand Ejectors only.
Plunger shown here in bottom of yoke and has a spring underneath it:
Photo credit: handejector
Cyl/yoke detent hold open device:
A classic old feature to keep the cyl open when loading/unloading and prevent it from slamming closed if the gun is tipped to the right slightly and scratching the recoil shield with the extractor star. Not to mention pinching a fingertip or two.
The cylinder hold open device or detent was introduced on the very 1st hand ejector, the ".32 HE Model 1896, 1st Model" thru the “.32 HE Model of 1903 – 2nd Model” thru 1904. It was used and continued in pre WWI K frames beginning on the “38 M&P Model of 1899” thru at least the “38 M&P Model of 1902 – 1st Change”, and also the N frames beginning with the 1908 44 Triple Lock.
By the Mar 10, 1919 change order: all cyl hold open detents in all frame sizes had been ordered eliminated. However, likely due to many surplus Model 1917 yokes being used from inventory, they are still found in most N frames pre WWII, and even thru some post war Transitional N frame HEs.
Another example of old world panache Smith was known for that we won't ever see again. And a very useful, easy to add device to any later model Hand Ejector.
Important Note: when you remove the yoke beware of the cyl detent pin and spring! If you aren't careful, it can launch across the room to no man knows where! If it's missing, that's likely what happened to it.
Also they were never installed in any "cranes", S&W Hand Ejectors only.
Plunger shown here in bottom of yoke and has a spring underneath it:
Photo credit: handejector
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Ray
Member
Well, mine is from the second batch, extensively seen on this board. It arrived here in 1946. When I first took off the yoke there was a hole in it but no pin or spring, so I improvised one following instructions from forum members here. It´s working properly so far - when I open the cylinder and turn the piece upside down it remains open.
Can´t say though if the Army personnel in charge of it lost the pin/spring in the years back, or if it was assembled by S&W without them.
Regards, Ray
Can´t say though if the Army personnel in charge of it lost the pin/spring in the years back, or if it was assembled by S&W without them.
Regards, Ray
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Yes, my 1946 Brazilian (built on old frame) has the hold open. It was a ship date of Apr 1946.
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tenntex32
Member
An easy way to tell if the yoke had the pin and spring originally installed is to look for the tell-tale "drag line" on the frame where the pin would score the finish during opening and closing.
All of my S&W M1917 examples have the spring and pin in the yoke. This includes my U.S. military contract examples, 1930s era Commercial, and 1937 Brazilian contract example built on a commercial style frame.
Dale
Ray,
Like Dale posted above, look for the wear mark shown and outlined in yellow in the photo, post #7.
Like Dale posted above, look for the wear mark shown and outlined in yellow in the photo, post #7.
OP
J. R. WEEMS
Member
It's factory.
Cyl/yoke detent hold open device:
A classic old feature to keep the cyl open when loading/unloading and prevent it from slamming closed if the gun is tipped to the right slightly and scratching the recoil shield with the extractor star. Not to mention pinching a fingertip or two.
The cylinder hold open device or detent was introduced on the very 1st hand ejector, the ".32 HE Model 1896, 1st Model" thru the “.32 HE Model of 1903 – 2nd Model” thru 1904. It was used and continued in pre WWI K frames beginning on the “38 M&P Model of 1899” thru at least the “38 M&P Model of 1902 – 1st Change”, and also the N frames beginning with the 1908 44 Triple Lock.
By the Mar 10, 1919 change order: all cyl hold open detents in all frame sizes had been ordered eliminated. However, likely due to many surplus Model 1917 yokes being used from inventory, they are still found in most N frames pre WWII, and even thru some post war Transitional N frame HEs.
Another example of old world panache Smith was known for that we won't ever see again. And a very useful, easy to add device to any later model Hand Ejector.
Important Note: when you remove the yoke beware of the cyl detent pin and spring! If you aren't careful, it can launch across the room to no man knows where! If it's missing, that's likely what happened to it.
Also they were never installed in any "cranes", S&W Hand Ejectors only.
Plunger shown here in bottom of yoke and has a spring underneath it:
Photo credit: handejector
mine looks nothing like that -- there is no plunger, just a small spring loaded ball. I can see that plunger shooting of to no-mans land but the ball in mine is quite stable. All i needed to do was press it in a bit to reassemble ?? THANKS ALL!!
mine looks nothing like that -- there is no plunger, just a small spring loaded ball. I can see that plunger shooting of to no-mans land but the ball in mine is quite stable. All i needed to do was press it in a bit to reassemble ?? THANKS ALL!!
I've never seen a ball. I have seen a mostly stuck pin that looked like a ball, when the spring has partly collapsed and stuck in the hole.
Many have lost plunger and spring, then jury rigged to work by the owner or the next owner. Factory parts are a 1/2" spring and 1/2" plunger by .1015" in diameter (#38 drill bit shank works perfectly).
Ray
Member
Well I should´ve know better. I remember when I first took off the yoke assembly there was no drag line like Hondo44 showed.Maybe even with the hole there, the factory didn´t install the pin/spring.
Well that stands corrected now !
Regards, Ray
Well that stands corrected now !
Regards, Ray
