Browning Superposed Question - Shotgun Experts?

[peter-paul]

Hi all, I have come into possession of a Browning Superposed with 3 inch chambers. It has a Browning recoil pad. Serial number research indicates this was made in 1954 or 1955.

I have read conflicting reports about the type of shells I can use in this shotgun. 1) Can one safely shoot non-lead shot without damaging the shotgun? 2) Can one shoot 2 3/4 inch shells?

Any advice you can give, especially on the do's and don'ts of the superposed would be greatly appreciated !

I am not traditionally a shotgun man, but I am a big fan of FN made guns in general and Browning in particular.

Thank you!

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[steveno]

do NOT use steel shot and depending upon what you are using it for there isn't any reason to use the 3 inch shells even though it won't hurt the gun. it won't do your shoulder any good do to the added recoil. the use of steel shot with continued use will cause the solder joint between the barrels to come apart.

 

[Tubbsy]

2 3/4" are A-Ok, steel.... I wouldn't.... the old Belgian guns aren't proofed for steel shot because it wasn't required back then. Gorgeous firearm, one thats been on my grail list for a long time.

 

[Fishinfool]

Steel shot in these old Browning's is a no no. With use, it will bulge out the chokes as the barrel steel is to soft and thin to withstand the "Uncompactability" of bunched steel shot compared to lead.

There are non-steel substitutes available now that advertise being safe in older barrels. I would look into these if you are looking for a waterfowl load. 2 3/4 inch shells will work fine in your gun.

Edited to add - That's a sweet looking Superposed.

Larry

 

[OLDSTER]

PLEASE don't use steel shot in the beautiful old Superposed. They were made with "mild steel" barrels. Non-steel shot shells, like Bismuth, are available at most good LGS.

 

[Bladeswitcher]

WHY would you want to shoot 3-inch shells? They are rarely needed. And why steel shot? Are you hunting somewhere where non-lead is required?

What are you going to do with the gun?

Also, tell us more: barrel length? chokes?

 

[Pisgah]

1. In general, steel shot is not recommended in older shotguns. It can damage the chokes and/or cause barrel separation in guns that weren't built for it.

2. A 3" chamber means you can shoot any 12 ga. shell that is 3" or shorter. So, yes -- you may shoot 2 3/4" ammo to your heart's content.

 

[gwpercle]

I also wouldn't take it to a gunsmith and ask him to drill out the barrels and install the new screw in choke tubes ...he just might do it and that would be a disaster...shoot it as is , 2 3/4" shells are perfectly fine , take good care of it ... Very Nice !!!
Gary

 

[peter-paul]

Hi All, thank you for the informative replies. I acquired this for little money, but as I said, I don't shoot shotguns like I do rifles and pistols.

I won't shoot steel (thanks all), and will plan to shoot Bismuth 2 3/4 shells as recommended.

I am more of a lover of FN made Brownings, which is why I was happy to get this.

@Bladeswitcher , I dont plan to shoot 3" shells at all. The barrels are 30 inches if memory serves me, and the chokes are mod. and full.

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[peter-paul]

I also wouldn't take it to a gunsmith and ask him to drill out the barrels and install the new screw in choke tubes ...he just might do it and that would be a disaster...shoot it as is , 2 3/4" shells are perfectly fine , take good care of it ... Very Nice !!!
Gary

Thanks Gary, I'm just going to leave as is. Thank you.

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[lawdog45]

No reason to use bismuth ammo unless you are hunting waterfowl or you are in state that requires nontoxic shot.

 

[tops]

Congratulations! You have a top of the line shotgun.
Unless you are shooting waterfowl or in a lead free area you don"t have to shoot Bismuth which is expensive. Regular lead shot is what your gun was made too shoot.
If the mod. and full chokes are too tight instead of altering your barrels you can use "spreader" shells which will make the tight chokes throw more open patterns.
I have a couple of guns that have tight chokes and I use the spreader shells when I want the pattern too open up. Larry

 

[peter-paul]

Okay, roger that. We are moving to northern Texas in a couple months (from Washington State), and I had planned to use this down there.

I'll check out the local laws there.

You are all extremely helpful, thankful.

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[Mike SC Hunter]

WHY would you want to shoot 3-inch shells? They are rarely needed. And why steel shot? Are you hunting somewhere where non-lead is required?

What are you going to do with the gun?

Also, tell us more: barrel length? chokes?

IF he deer or turkey hunts 3" shells would be better. My mdl 12's have paper thin barrels. Yet they've held up to lots of buckshot and turkey loads over the years.

 

[Pig Hunter]

You didn't say if it was a 12 or 20. Either way no steel. As a rule of thumb you can shoot shorter shells that what a shotgun chamber is proofed for.

 

[peter-paul]

Hi, it is 12 Gauge. Many thanks for all of the great input.

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[clang444]

Very Nice Superposed. I love the classic solid rib.

As already mentioned, steel shot is a No No. It can ripple the barrels and loosen the solder that holds the barrels and ribs together.

One other suggestion - the old Belgian Superposeds will rust if you look at them funny. Make sure it is well lubed and cleaned immediately after shooting/handling.

 

[H Richard]

I agree that Steel shot is normally not recommended, but if there is no choice, (duck/goose flyway requiring steel or bismuth) remember these do not compress, so your choke is one tighter that you think. A Mod becomes a Full and so on. Always try an alternative to steel.

 

[Buick]

Any 3" magnum lead shot load or any 2 and 3/4" lead shot load is fine. It will take a LONG time to wear out a Superposed even with a steady diet of 3" magnum shells. You will most likely wear out before it even wears in. Steel shot is not recommended. I will say that i have a Browning Citori over/under that was in regular use as a duck gun before steel shot became mandatory and for many years thereafter with steel, and it has apparently suffered no ill effects. I dont shoot steel in it any longer however, as there are modern alternatives to steel shot like Bismuth available today.

 

[Narragansett]

Shoot the length she'll stamped on the bbl only.

NEVER, NEVER use steel shot. It does not compress like lead and will stretch your chokes.

Never dry fire a shotgun. The inertia will break the firing pin. Get snap caps to release spring tension and decock

Shoot mild normal loads. Forget express or nitro stuff. You have older steel

Go get some target loads and shoot some clay pigeons

 

[2152hq]

It looks near brand new.
Congrats a fine FN.

Why anyone would want to shoot 3" 12ga is something I have always wondered. Not being a hunter (anymore) and it's been several yrs,,I guess the answer is buried in there. But 2 3/4 always seemed to do the job OK.
ANyway,,,

I wouldn't alter the chokes in any way. I know those screw in gizzies are popular but on such a classic they'll drop the value like a stone should you ever sell it. Of course we never sell anything. Same goes for any stock alterations, new pad, ect.
Better to sell it now in it's near new cond and buy something more usable than to alter it. Plenty of sleek semi autos that handle everything made and you can use them for canoe paddles as well w/o harm.
Those Long Tang/Round Knob FN Superposed are getting tough to find in nice condition.

The full choke is too tight for steel loads. I'd consider the Mod too tight also but many use a Mod to shoot steel and have no problems.
Early problems with steel shot loads were the plastic wads weren't tough enough to keep the harder steel shot from scrubbing through the wad petals and scoring the bbl walls on their way down the bore.

A tight choke will also bunch up the shot load for an instant and make for a bulged bbl @ the choke or sometimes a split bbl at the muzzle.

Newer tougher plastic wads have pretty much done away with the scoring issue but a few makers will still not rate all or some of their bbls for steel loads.

We have a (1953) Remington Sportsman 48 12ga in the family that has been shot extensively with steel since it was mandated. The bore looks like it is straight rifled it's so badly scored from early steel loads. The PolyChoke has never been damaged by the steel loads but has always been used on IC at the most (so I'm told)

If you are legally OK to use lead shot, just use that in a plain field load and the gun will be wonderfully comfortable to shoot.
I shoot 12g (reloads) down to the 9/16oz & 5/8oz and use full choke in most all my guns as they are older and came that way. They easily break clay targets out to 40yrds+.
Factory 7/8oz & 1oz loads are fine and can do just about anything in the field for you.

 

[Chukar60]

Enjoy that SP!! Love the solid rib!
I think it is one of the best bargains on the market for an O/U. Especially the 12 gauges. The 20's are getting pricey
Some people think the 1950's SP's are the best quality they made.

 

[bulletslap]

You have received good advice on avoiding Steel And Tunsten shot, and about the need to prevent rust. I will add that the Brownings of the old days were choked tighter than most American Guns, and this is exacerbated by being designed before plastic shot cups were introduced.

It will most likely pattern much tighter than the choke it is marked for. When you get to Texas, other than Waterfowl you will be able to use good old lead shot.

From time to time I will use my old 12 Gauge Superposed on Sand Hill Cranes with 3 inch lead number 2 and BB shot.

 

[chief38]

You have come to be in possession of what I consider to be one of the finest (if not THE finest) O/U Shotguns ever made! Mine was made in the late 1950's and I have hunted Upland Game with it for over 30 years. I purchased it NIB although it was about 30 years old when I bought it. My late 1950's Browning A-5 will only shoot Lead as well but for Upland Game (not over water) it's perfect as well.

There is no reason to use 3" shells - 2 3/4" will do anything you need to. Like the others have said, NO Steel and NO Bismuth! Lead ONLY! The only requirement for non Lead pellets is when shooting over water - so unless you are doing that - no reason to use anything other than Lead. If you go Duck Hunting or are shooting over water - simply use a different gun that was made for Steel.

BTW your Superposed looks like a Grade 1, 26" or 28" bbl version. You can tell by the stampings if it is a Lightning (lighter weight) model. Go on Browning's website and they should have a chart there.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

I have a 1964 12 gauge 30" Lightning with Full/Full Chokes and 3" chambers. Many people believe that 3" chambers help reduce felt recoil when firing "Handicap" Trap loads. I've been shooting mine since 1997 and can't find any truth to that.

Since your gun doesn't say "Lightning", That round knob stock is call a "Prince of Wales" and your gun weighs about 4 ounces less than mine. I love to use mine for sporting clays in the winter. I usually carry #8's and #7.5's in a 1250 or 1300 fps 1 ounce load and several #8 1.25 ounce spreader loads for closer shots. There are basically 2 types of spreading shot shells. The first uses a wad with a post in the center of the shot cup, Fiocchi Rhino are like this. The other uses standard wads with a posted overshot card, this is post down and under the crimp. "Spreader" Brand uses this. In your 30" Full barrel the "Spreader" will perform like Modified, and the Rhino will perform almost I/C. I have bought factory and handloaded both of these systems. They keep my Full/Full gut competitive with the choke tube guns!

The balance of you gun gives it a swing dynamic rivaling many $5000-$8000 shotguns (which is what a new Sporting Clays model Superpose costs!)

My home club has one true pair presentation, that was left and behind you, then climbed fast and curved right. There was a tree at the 10:30 position. Most people picked the first bird up after the tree and the second bird would be out of range, All of my guns are capable of getting one bird before the tree, but only my Superposes can get both birds before the tree (I have a 20 gauge Lightning from 1966 also). It's about 10 yards to the left, and I have done that several times with Full chokes and normal ammo!

There are better guns than a Superpose, but the costs just eat up several years of ammo! Val Browning designed the Superpose to be the absolute best bang for the buck! And he succeeded!

Ivan

I have 6 Browning Citori O/U shotguns also, because I can't afford 28 gauge and 410 bore Superposes!
ITB

 

[scooter123]

As stated previously do NOT shoot steel in your superposed. Once you see the cost of Bismuth loads you might decide that plain old lead is just fine. Fact is that lead is fine for busting clays because most shotgun ranges today take steps to minimize the impact of lead falling to the berms. If. or when you want to actually do some hunting is when using bismuth loads is necessary.

Note, personally I would rather use a more modern shotgun for hunting, there are many new guns that cost a lot less than the value of that Browning and many come with polymer stocks that won't be effected at all by a bit of rain. Where your superposed would shine is in shooting Sporting Clays, Trap, or 5 Stand. I would suggest starting out with Trap because is the easiest venue and you'll start hitting the clays right away.

PS; that buttpad wasn't introduced until some time in the early 70's so you may want to start scouting for a period correct pad for your superposed.

 

[Narragansett]

I would never consider choke tubes. They are a pain in the *** to clean and look terrible, besides costing you money and devaluing you gun.

Patterning a gun at 30 yards and counting little holes in the quadrants of the target is a waste of time. You only want to know point of impact. so, go set up a paper target on a patterning board, back off about 15 yards, get your self a 6 o'clock hold on the bullseye using a figure 8 on your front and middle beads, and blow a hole in the target. Where the big hole is, is your point of impact. Adjust your shot placement on whatever you are shooting accordingly.

 

[Bladeswitcher]

I wouldn't alter the chokes in any way. I know those screw in gizzies are popular but on such a classic they'll drop the value like a stone should you ever sell it. . . .

I am not a fan of adding screw-in chokes to an old gun. Invariably, you have to use the thin-wall chokes and the barrels end up being almost paper thin below the threads. I've had it done, but never felt comfortable about it afterwards. It takes a skilled machinist/gunsmith to do it right.

That said, I see a lot of benefit in having fixed chokes opened up a bit. These old guns were made for the old paper shells with fiber wads. Modern plastic wad shotshells produce tighter patterns than the old shells. Consequently, you can almost assume any old gun is going to pattern about one choke step tighter than what's marked on the barrel. This old gun will likely pattern like a rifle with its original chokes.

I see no reason not to relieve the choke a bit, especially if you need looser constriction for the type of shooting you're doing. If all you're doing is shooting trap or hunting turkey, the original mod/full might work fine for you (Waterfowl is out due to steel shot requirements). But if you're going to shoot skeet/sporting clays or hunt upland game, then something a little looser would probably be more useful. I have a number of old fixed choke side-by-side shotguns that I've had opened up to something like improved cylinder/mod. I find this configuration works just fine for my shooting. It's not ideal for skeet, but it works fine. It's just about perfect for sporting clays on the courses I shoot at. Something like mod/mod or light mod/light mod would work fine, too.

The OP is fortunate in that 30 inch barrels are highly desirable and very useful. The old mod/full chokes, not so much. If it's a collector piece, yeah, leave it alone. If he's actually going to use the gun, he might consider having a skilled shotgun gunsmith open the chokes a bit.

 

[peter-paul]

Hi all, I am very grateful for your combined knowledge here, and I knew you all would have many years of expertise on this.

Here is what I am going to do:

I'm not going to use the shotgun for hunting at all. And I am not going to modify it in any way, I'm going to leave it just as it is.

If I do shoot it for recreation, I'll use lead 2 3/4 inch shot, and I'll use it gently.

For hunting, I'll get a modern synthetic wonder that I don't mind knocking about.

Thank you all again.



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[Ivan the Butcher]

For hunting, I'll get a modern synthetic wonder that I don't mind knocking about.

I have a Browning Citori Upland Special Grade VI in 28 gauge. I took it to the back of the farm to shoot whatever game I kicked up. As I walked up to a nice Blackberry thicket, looking for some rabbits or birds, I walked around the blackberries so as not to scratch the finish! Pretty soon I noticed I was only walking the mowed paths! I went back to the house, got a Mossberg 12 gauge, put on another layer of field pants, and went and wadded right through the thickets. I limited out on rabbits and got one pheasant, but I wasn't proud of my hunt! Anybody can do that with a 12 gauge! I had wanted to do it with a little class!

Ivan