Buckshot Penetration Question?

[Jessie]

Rock quarry has the answer. Pattern shoot all of them at whatever range your interested in. That’s the only way to find out what your gun shoots best at those ranges.
What works for one won’t necessarily work for another. Even the same model.
Just have to shoot it and see.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

Buckshot is a terrible thing for deer....too close and it makes a mess, over 50 feet it is a non stopper . only a lucky pellet will penetrate enough to do anything but wound. It stops on any bone and does NOT shoot thru any deer. Now slugs are a different case and are very effective.

You speak, but you have little or no experience with buckshot and deer. With a good choke and quality shells it's a 50 yard killer(deer) all day long. This answer comes from one who has used buckshot on deer for 50 years. OO's will bust bones and do complete penetration of the body cavity. I REALLY don't believe you've ever shot a deer with buckshot.

 

[SweetMK]

I'm interested in a defensive aspect. Thanks, all!

I just watched several of the Paul Harrell videos on shot for defense, today.

Amazingly, bird shot is just as adequate as 00 buckshot ,, at 7 yards,,

Paul has several great videos showing the actual results on his design of a DIY target.

Pork is used for pectorals, and then pork ribs, then oranges for lungs,, ETC,, you get the idea,,

I would trust birdshot at 7 yards,, but, I keep 00 buckshot in my shotgun, as my home defense area is WAY further than 7 yards.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaR1EVybUgc[/ame]

Paul does an excellent job of justifying his statements,,

I was amazed how far 00 buckshot could be effective,, and he was using a cylinder shotgun, IIRC,

He even recently made a video of wax poured into birdshot shotgun shells,,
That gave interesting results.

I also watched his video on using a 5.56 for home defense,,
I stopped cleaning my 5.56 AR to type this post,,

Well,, back to the rags,,

 

[SweetMK]

You speak, but you have little or no experience with buckshot and deer. With a good choke and quality shells it's a 50 yard killer(deer) all day long.

My nephews have a 1,000 acre farm in Virginia,, they organize BIG hunts to control deer population, and for most of a half century, hundreds of deer were killed per year, with shotguns.

Their research found that both 2 3/4" and 3" magnum 00 buckshot were only allowed to be loaded with an identical maximum charge of powder.
The 3" shells were then loaded with more pellets, because the shell was larger.

Well, guess what? if both 2 3/4" and 3" shells have the same amount of propellant,
but,,
the 3" shell is pushing a heavier weight (higher quantity) of pellets,,
the 3" magnum shells resulted in the pellets going slower.

So, they found the distance that a 12 gauge shotgun was effective was GREATER with the 2 3/4" shells.

The higher speed of the pellets trumps having more pellets.

The word MAGNUM does not make the shell better in all cases,,

On another note, I was with my neighbor, when he killed a buck at 80 paces (yards) with a custom choked shotgun.

The man shot some gun EVERY weekend, he knew his guns, and what they could do.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

My nephews have a 1,000 acre farm in Virginia,, they organize BIG hunts to control deer population, and for most of a half century, hundreds of deer were killed per year, with shotguns.

Their research found that both 2 3/4" and 3" magnum 00 buckshot were only allowed to be loaded with an identical maximum charge of powder.
The 3" shells were then loaded with more pellets, because the shell was larger.

Well, guess what? if both 2 3/4" and 3" shells have the same amount of propellant,
but,,
the 3" shell is pushing a heavier weight (higher quantity) of pellets,,
the 3" magnum shells resulted in the pellets going slower.

So, they found the distance that a 12 gauge shotgun was effective was GREATER with the 2 3/4" shells.

The higher speed of the pellets trumps having more pellets.

The word MAGNUM does not make the shell better in all cases,,

On another note, I was with my neighbor, when he killed a buck at 80 paces (yards) with a custom choked shotgun.

The man shot some gun EVERY weekend, he knew his guns, and what they could do.

You are correct.

For all time the FASTED 12 ga buckshot load made by Win/Rem/Fed is/has been the plain ol 9 pellet load.

It's amusing when you see someone babbling on about something they obviously have no clue about.

 

[LoboGunLeather]

The ballistics of plain lead spheres have been well known for over 200 years of muzzle loading.
Since the mass goes up as the cube of the diameter and the geometric cross section goes up as the square of the diameter, the larger sphere always has the greater force and penetration at the same speed. Period.

However, there is a practical side to your specific deer hunting question in that 00 buck will shoot all the way through a deer's soft tissues. I agree with Scooter that smaller #1 buckshot has a more devastating effect from more wound channels, provided you hit the target with the full load. When I was in VA, that's what I used hunting on Camp AP Hill, which has thick cover and typically close shots.
Trying to shoot buck shot at too long range usually results in poor hits as the pattern spreads out. You can literally shoot all around the target.

Very true. I recall a coyote that ran right through a pattern of 12-gauge 00-buckshot at about 50 yards. I think he learned how to do that from a roadrunner!

 

[RMcL]

My nephews have a 1,000 acre farm in Virginia,, they organize BIG hunts to control deer population, and for most of a half century, hundreds of deer were killed per year, with shotguns.

Their research found that both 2 3/4" and 3" magnum 00 buckshot were only allowed to be loaded with an identical maximum charge of powder.
The 3" shells were then loaded with more pellets, because the shell was larger.

Well, guess what? if both 2 3/4" and 3" shells have the same amount of propellant,
but,,
the 3" shell is pushing a heavier weight (higher quantity) of pellets,,
the 3" magnum shells resulted in the pellets going slower.

So, they found the distance that a 12 gauge shotgun was effective was GREATER with the 2 3/4" shells.

The higher speed of the pellets trumps having more pellets.

The word MAGNUM does not make the shell better in all cases,,

On another note, I was with my neighbor, when he killed a buck at 80 paces (yards) with a custom choked shotgun.

The man shot some gun EVERY weekend, he knew his guns, and what they could do.

Back to lead ball ballistics:

Assuming an actual nominal .33" and 54 grain weight under the 00B moniker.

Full power 2.75" 12 gauge, 00B nine pellet rounds are rated at 1325 fps, 3" 00B 15 pellet rounds are rated at 1250 fps.
(Note: All industry shotshell velocity readings are taken 3 feet from the muzzle of an industry 30" test barrel.)

Running those figures though the online Round Ball Ballistics Calculations for Muzzleloaders, (set at a seasonal 40F), gives the following results:

A 2.75" nine pellet 00B load starting at 1325 fps will have a remaining 50 yard velocity of 936 fps.

A 3" fifteen pellet 00B load starting at 1250 fps will have a remaining 50 yard velocity of 912 fps.

The starting difference of 75 fps dwindles to 24 fps at 50 yards.



Like all multi-pellet shotgun applications it comes down to pattern density and adequate penetration.



Also, according to a University of Iowa study, the average step length of a 6 ft. male is 2.5 ft. or 30 inches. That would make "80 paces" equate to just over 66 yards.

Interesting.

 

[Sgt911]

We were told to carry #4 buck on duty. I have continued that into retirement. Never used it while working but here on the ranch I was able to kill five decent size hogs with one shot. After I shot they all fell down. I looked at the shotgun like WTH! That being said, a test article I recently read has #1 buck on top for self defense.

 

[DWalt]

Many of the local sports prefer 00B for feral hogs, seems to work fine for them. I have never shot anything living using 00B. My personal feeling is that for home defense use, #2 or #4 birdshot is the best choice as the distance will be short (inside 10 yards), outer clothing will be easily penetrated, and over-penetration of walls or ceilings will be minimal. Some years back I saw a dead body that got that way from getting shot with a single birdshot load to the chest at close range. It was gory.

 

[RMcL]

My favorite buckshot hunting load:

12 Ga, 3" Mag. - 3 - .600" Hard Lead Alloy Buckshot @ 1100 fps.

No penetration questions.