Building an AR15 or AK47

[HOUSTON RICK]

My son, who s studying to be an engineer, has expressed interest in us building a rifle together. Who am I to argue. From my online reading, I see that AR-15's are much easier to build because they (supposedly) "snap together". The AK-47, while a simpler deign has rivets and tool requirements (and above all patience) not required to build an AR-15. He has all the mechanical aptitude and I would do what I can. I construct legal arguments. We are likely talking about an AR-15. From those who have done this what do you think? What are the best information/kits or parts to start with? I want to end up with a good experience for my son and maybe a decent heirloom. Thanks!

 

[bulletslap]

I am not sure I would call assembling an AR building, unless special mods were made. It would be what I would recommend as a starting point. The tools and parts you need are available everywhere.

AKs are a little more challenging and require more tools and tweaking.

For parts ? Palmetto State Armory, KAK Industries, and Aero-Precison is where I start for AR parts.

 

[Sevens]

Agreed, I think you'll find that while we have definitely gotten in to the habit of calling the AR-15 projects "builds" and they are fun to do, the level of difficulty is extremely low. It is parts assembly and not the challenge you might seem to think is ahead.

My only recommendation is to try and grab a lower parts kit that specifically excludes the fire control parts (hammer, trigger, sear, disconnector) because if you enjoy rifles at all, you'll want a better than stock trigger so you may as well save a couple bucks for parts you won't re-use. I recommend the LaRue MBT-2S as a fantastic value as a great trigger for extremely reasonable money.

I know nearly nothing about AK's and that is my comfort zone.

 

[shocker]

Yesterday without AR specific tools, and reading pewpewtacticals online instructions, I assembled an AR lower in 2 hours. Snapped on a Palmetto upper and voila, an AR. Tested it this morning, works great.
Maybe it's too easy to call a project unless you've got 10 thumbs.

 

[Ματθιας]

The "only" potential upper issue with an AR is the barrel install and gas block if building a completely disassembled upper. the rest is just like the old school snap together model kits. Spend the money on barrel, bolt carrier, and lower parts kit for a quality build. Lowers are all the same - mostly.

With an AK you have to source a receiver, a parts kit and a barrel. WAY more involved. I have basic skills, and even after seeing and participating in an AK build or three, I don't feel comfortable doing one by myself.
Also you have to deal with parts compliance

Nodakspud sells AR and AK receivers and has links for AK parts kits. Also see AK-builder.com

 

[Catbacker88]

Agreed, I think you'll find that while we have definitely gotten in to the habit of calling the AR-15 projects "builds" and they are fun to do, the level of difficulty is extremely low. It is parts assembly and not the challenge you might seem to think is ahead.

My only recommendation is to try and grab a lower parts kit that specifically excludes the fire control parts (hammer, trigger, sear, disconnector) because if you enjoy rifles at all, you'll want a better than stock trigger so you may as well save a couple bucks for parts you won't re-use. I recommend the LaRue MBT-2S as a fantastic value as a great trigger for extremely reasonable money.

I know nearly nothing about AK's and that is my comfort zone.

Perfect advice, ARs compared to AKs in kit form are very, very simple. So much so I refuse to use the "b word". That said, you can make assembling an AR more interesting by not using a preassembled upper receiver group. Source a stripped upper of your liking and then go about obtaining a suitable barrel, handguards, etc. Way more interesting than just installing a lower receiver parts kit. And yes, that LaRue MBT is a fantastic trigger for no more than it costs!

 

[dmthomp32]

If I was in your space, AR is the easiest place to begin. Then I'd consider a polymer 80 Glock build (slightly more complex). From there I'd work my way into an AK or 1911 build. If you want to get a little goofy, for $300 you can get a 3D printer and join the online communities who are designing and building frames and firearms that blend common metal parts with 3D printed parts. That is an interesting hobby as well with a wide range of opportunities; Glocks, Mac-10's, CZ Scorpions, etc.

Sent from my Pixel 3a XL using Tapatalk

 

[ColbyBruce]

Back in December 2020 I sent a new PSA upper receiver to Windham Weaponry to have a .300 Blackout barrel installed. WW returned the original barrel with the front sight and barrel nut intact. I purchased a PSA LPK, upper and lower receivers, CH, BCG, aftermarket FA, Delta ring, snap ring, and crush washer. I assembled it in a few hours, as I had all the necessary tools. The two-tone is my Blackout, the dark one I put together.

 

[BigBill]

For performance hands down the ak. Better than the energizer bunny.
How about modding a russian Izmash Saiga.

 

[Rick_A]

AR is extremely easy. If you can follow some simple instructions, turn a wrench and drive a couple roll pins it's no big deal.

The AK requires a lot more investment and I'd say requires an expert to assemble if it is to be done right. They are deceptively simple. I believe Krebs Custom has a couple videos giving an overview of what it takes to put one together properly. Not bad for a gunsmith and fabricator. Not for the layman. A functional gun could result, but being built properly and in a way that doesn't destroy itself long term is another thing altogether.

 

[Rick_A]

For performance hands down the ak.

There's a reason AR's are so prevalent among military, law enforcement, and competition circles.

The AK is a likely the most successful rifle in the world, but in real world testing the AR is more reliable in adverse conditions and has proven to have better long term durability. The AR is also far more adaptable concerning optics and mission specific accessories.

Don't get me wrong, I like AK's and had one for years...but I don't let romanticism get in the way of practical matters.

 

[teletech]

If you are buying a completed receiver the AR takes more minutes than hours. If you buy all the upper parts disassembled and have to do the gas block and such it can be more of a project. Either way, it's a fun beginner project for sure and it will almost certainly work fine when you are done.
If you are going to weld up or otherwise make your AK receiver be prepared for some hair pulling during the tuning process. If you buy a completed receiver it's not too bad but still a lot more work than an AR and with less certainty of good results. That might make it a more interesting and challenging project though.
There are some other options as well, you could build a HK G3 or MP5 clone, a FN-FAL, or assemble a M-1 Garand from parts... For the HK stuff you can build the receiver with some jigging and welding or buy one, the FAL and M1 you'll need to buy a completed receiver.

Not to travel even further afield but doing a pistol build can be pretty fun. The 1911 platform offers much of the Legos parts options and compatibility of the AR platform but also *endless* tuning options where you have something that works pretty early on but with some effort you keep getting a better result.

 

[Miami_JBT]

You assemble an AR, you build an AK.

 

[bulletslap]

I have built/assemble a handful of AK variants and a couple of FN-FALs; unfortunately the time to acquire parts kits was 15-20 years ago.

It isn't cost effective today, in my opinion.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

Back in December 2020 I sent a new PSA upper receiver to Windham Weaponry to have a .300 Blackout barrel installed. WW returned the original barrel with the front sight and barrel nut intact. I purchased a PSA LPK, upper and lower receivers, CH, BCG, aftermarket FA, Delta ring, snap ring, and crush washer. I assembled it in a few hours, as I had all the necessary tools. The two-tone is my Blackout, the dark one I put together.

I did like COLBYBRUCE and have my 300 Black-Out in one color and my 223 in another. Plus I went an extra steep; all my 300 BO is loaded in mags of the same color as the gun to avoid any mix-ups!

Ivan

 

[WR Moore]

I expect I'm in the minority here, I'm not fond of the "home build" idea, at least where you're sourcing the parts.

Why? Well mainly because the manufacturers who do it right make receipt inspections of parts to make sure they meet all the various specifications before they'll use them. You've got no way to do that, at least without spending a bundle. Sad to say there are folks who make parts who are willing to sell parts that might not meet all specifications at reduced prices to stay in business. The problem being, which spec(s) did they miss and by how much?

Yes, there are manufacturers who are willing to buy those parts and use them too. Right after 9/11 the purchasing weenies bought some "name brand" ARs. After going through our CQB training cycle, they all needed barrels, bolts and the entire fire control groups replaced.

Another issue is that properly assembling the item requires some specialty tools and gauges. As an example, you can buy matched barrels and bolts to make sure headspace will be correct. Or, you can trust to the tolerance gods that things will come out right. Finally, you can buy the gauges and make sure everything's OK at the start and to do welfare checks over time-and be all set to install the next barrel/bolt.

At the very least, I'd suggest you check out Pat Sweeny's series of books on the AR before you start buying parts/building. Gunsmithing the AR is a really good source of information.

FWIW: I used to shoot competition. I've seen a number of gas blocks secured with set screws fail. What usually happens is that the block blows forward, the hand guards launch and you're definitely up the creek.

 

[CustomChevyGuy]

I've completed 3 AR builds, 2 Poly80, and 1 SS80 (almost complete just need a pin kit). I would say start with the AR, and if you two want to do another project after that, try a Poly80 build of one of the Glock models they offer. Then, if you really feel like a challenge, they also make Poly80 AR lowers which are something I don't think I have the patience for.
The ARs can be completed with basic hand tools, but I decided to invest in a AR Armorers wrench. It would be handy to have a Mag block to put in a vice, but I've been able to work around that. Also a good roll pin punch set is helpful for all of these builds.
The Poly80/SS80 kits are a bit more detail oriented and precise. Take your time with them, they are a lot more finicky than the AR platform. Precision and detail will show in the end result. A dremel tool will greatly improve you experience on these. There are a ton of great sources for these builds, as they are a bit more intricate than the AR platform.

If you have questions, feel free to DM.

 

[Miami_JBT]

I expect I'm in the minority here, I'm not fond of the "home build" idea, at least where you're sourcing the parts.

Why? Well mainly because the manufacturers who do it right make receipt inspections of parts to make sure they meet all the various specifications before they'll use them. You've got no way to do that, at least without spending a bundle. Sad to say there are folks who make parts who are willing to sell parts that might not meet all specifications at reduced prices to stay in business. The problem being, which spec(s) did they miss and by how much?

Yes, there are manufacturers who are willing to buy those parts and use them too. Right after 9/11 the purchasing weenies bought some "name brand" ARs. After going through our CQB training cycle, they all needed barrels, bolts and the entire fire control groups replaced.

Another issue is that properly assembling the item requires some specialty tools and gauges. As an example, you can buy matched barrels and bolts to make sure headspace will be correct. Or, you can trust to the tolerance gods that things will come out right. Finally, you can buy the gauges and make sure everything's OK at the start and to do welfare checks over time-and be all set to install the next barrel/bolt.

At the very least, I'd suggest you check out Pat Sweeny's series of books on the AR before you start buying parts/building. Gunsmithing the AR is a really good source of information.

FWIW: I used to shoot competition. I've seen a number of gas blocks secured with set screws fail. What usually happens is that the block blows forward, the hand guards launch and you're definitely up the creek.

When I built AKs, parts were all good stuff and this was before TAPCO became a joke. I'd get Romanian kits, a TAPCO receiver flat and G2 trigger, build it, shoot it, eventually get bored with it, sell it, then get the itch again for another AK.

 

[WR Moore]

I lost my original post where I mentioned kits. Kits from a manufacturer/source of good quality are another story entirely from self sourcing. That said, getting every single part is highly unusual, but the minor stuff isn't that big a deal.

 

[AlHunt]

The AR is a great start. I'd suggest an aluminum 80% lower and a jig. I have the Universal Drill Press jig from 80percentarms. Of course, it's out of stock right now but what isn't these days?