Bullet Reloading

[Degg]

This may have already been addressed but I have some questions on making bullets

How particular are you on your lead? Clean, I get that; but do you melt or buy; and do you do a hardness test? What about adding tin or other metals to it?

 

[GypsmJim]

I started casting in 1975. My reason was that I was not happy with the lead bullets that were available at the time, and I could not afford jacketed.

The first thing I did was buy a How-To book. I know, I know, reading is a problem because it's too time consuming. Well, I just like to read. I don't remember what book it was, but I believe it was published by Lyman.

After doing my R&D it seemed to me that the Lyman #2 formula was a good place to start. The book had formulas using various sources. Since I had a supply of linotype, pure lead and bar solder, I weighed up the components and made Lyman #2.

Yes, the formula contained lead, tin and antimony. Those ingredients were already in the solder and type.

Years went by and my sources dried up, so I switched to wheel weights. The boolits I made seemed as good as the #2 versions, i.e, no leading and good accuracy. When it was clear that lead WWs were going to be replaced by zinc I stocked up. WWs also contain the 3 alloys, but at different percentages.

What I did was melt all the WWs outside, stripped off the steel clips and oil and made clean ingots. Then when I cast I have a good source. A few years ago I bought a Lee Hardness Tester and started evaluating my stash. I had 6 or 7 batches of ingots and a bunch of already cast boolits. What I found was that the different batches of WWs were quite consistent, and my home cast boolits were basically equivalent to what the vendors call "hard cast".

Bottom line, IMHO, you can buy lead, tin and antimony separately, or mix commercially available components, or buy "bullet lead", but simple WWs are the easiest way to go. They ARE available because not every state has outlawed lead.

I have a large berm at my camp where I place my target. When I get ambitious I mine some of my own deposits, wash them and throw them into my pot when I cast. So, recycling helps keep the planet clean......LOL.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

The Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook has all the info on casting bullets and loading them into cartridges you will need.

The way you pour the lead into the mold has a great effect on your end product. For my long range "Buffalo Rifles", I use the ladle to fill the mold. For handgun bullets, I use a bottom pour lead furnace. The ladle method makes fantastic very consistent bullets. The bottom pour furnace is 10 to 20 times faster, but the bullets very enough that it causes lower accuracy at 100 plus yards. Both methods have their place.

Which alloy and hardness to use is also a factor and discussed at length in the book. I know Midway sell the book as do many gun shops that supply reloaders. (I use the older 3rd edition, the newer edition(s) only add new cartridge loading data. The casting info hasn't changed since before WW II!)

Ivan

 

[old tanker]

Early on, mostly due to youthful ignorance, I standardized on what wheel weights I could scrounge from the local tire store. As an impecunious fifteen year old with Lee Loaders for 30-30 and 45 ACP a Lee single cavity mould for each was what I used. I read all the stuff in the Lyman manual just couldn't afford it. QC was if they weren't wrinkly they got shot. A couple decades later I started shooting IHMSA with a Super Blackhawk so upgraded my technique and equipment. Then IPSC, and handgun blasting bullets come from gang moulds and a bottom pour furnace. Consistent alloys, hardness testing, ladles, pan lubing, sorting by weight, and all manner of obsessive technique did not come until nearly the turn of the century and BPCR buffalo guns.

 

[USSR]

The economical thing to do is visit your local scrap yard. What you want to do is look for specific types of lead that have a known lead, antimony, and tin content, such as wheel weights, lead pipe, lead roofing, linotype, solder, etc. Then, melt each type separately into ingots and place them into a well marked box as to the content. Then, once you have determined how hard or soft you want your bullets to be, calculate how much of each type of lead will bring you to the BHN you want. Hope that helps.

Don

 

[imashooter2]

90% of my casting is satisfied with indoor range scrap. I have collected a few thousand pounds and I’m certain my daughter’s husband will be cursing about her crazy old man as he carries half of it to a dumpster when they are closing out the estate. I clean it up in a 12 quart cast iron Dutch oven on a turkey fryer and pour into the classic Lyman ingot molds. To make some nod towards a standard mix I turn 3 or 4 buckets at a time into the wheelbarrow and then jumble the bricks before I put them away. Storage is in the same buckets that the ore came from. I fill with bricks about halfway, slide it to its final location and then fill it to the top. I write the contents on the lid with a marker. These buckets are all stored indoors so UV doesn’t destroy them. So far so good with many 20+ years old.

I usually cast the scrap as is, however if a mold gets balking for whatever reason I will add a bit of tin from scrap pewter. I do have a few hundred pounds of pure and linotype. If I want a hard rifle bullet for some application I can make a 50/50 mix and get pretty close to Taracorp or "hardball" alloy. Wadcutters are cast from pure with 2% pewter by weight.

 

[rockquarry]

Good ideas here but info in post #3 is the best place to start.

 

[Degg]

Good info group. I too have wanted to make my own bullets and reloading. I save the WW's and also some old sheet of roofing materials. I have melted down a gob of it and still have a good gob to go. I melt it in a melting pot and take a spoon and skim off the yuk. Then pour it into the Lyman 1-lbs. molds. They come out nice and shiny and have stayed, in a plastic tote, nice and shiny. I have just never taken the next step to make bullets because I was unsure of the hardness criteria, if it's too soft or too hard, is that bad on the barrel? I just don't know. This is an encouraging thread for me.

 

[scattershot]

I may, be the odd man out here, but I buy my cast bullets. Quality is excellent these days. I used to to cast, but it was tedious and seemed to take forever for the amount I wanted.

 

[The Kid]

For a long time it was preached that bullets needed to be hard to prevent leading. It is more commonly known now that bullet fit, to throat and bore, and a good lubricant are far more important than hardness. Pressure and speeds are other factors that make a difference too. For 38 and 44 special as well as 45 Colt and ACP type pressures and speeds hardness is down the list of importance behind fit and lube.

I use a lot of roof flashing, which is very soft, with a small amount of WW and solder added for the vast majority of my handgun bullets. Lube and size in a Star with White Label lube, and most of the time load to mild speeds for pleasant and accurate shooting. I have revolvers that have hundreds of these loads through them without a cleaning rod down the barrel and no leading.

Best advice I can give you is to invest in quality molds and sizing equipment. A good mold is a pleasure to cast with and can last nearly forever with proper use and storage. I really like H&G and Cramer molds from back in the 50’s and 60’s. The Star sizer is discontinued and the dies are expensive. But if you can round up a setup with the dies you need they are so much faster an easier to use than the assorted Lyman,RCBS, etc push pull sizers and IMO they make better bullets.

 

[Skyhunter]

When I started casting, I bought the Lyman Cast Bullet handbook (2nd edition I think) to learn the basics. This was back in 1973, and I was recently discharged from the Army. Jacketed bullets were expensive and I was working my way thru college with little extra $ to spend.
Wheel weights have served me well for all my handgun bullets - IME, they tend to be a bit brittle, but for plinking they serve well. Wheel weight alloy can easily be "softened" with the addition of some pure lead. If I need to cast any WC bullets, a 50/50 blend of pure lead (smelted flashings) and wheel weights gives me a good blend.
When I need CF rifle bullets, I use Lyman #2 alloy that I prepare from the recipe in the Lyman manual.
Black powder cartridge bullets are cast from purchased 1/20 alloy.
I never bought a lead hardness tester, the ole thumbnail scratch test worked for me. The only caliber that ever gave me grief with leading was my .357 mag. revolver. Buying & using a gas check bullet mold (Lyman #358156) solved that problem (thanks to Skeeter Skelton). I learned early on that correct sizing of the bullets did more to reduce or eliminate leading than bullet hardness.

WYT-P
Skyhunter

 

[Forrest r]

IMHO:
Alloy hardness way overrated. I've been shooting nothing but 8/9bhn range scrap for decades (1980's). 50yds and closer it matters not. If you're trying to shoot flies @ 100yds then you'll need a better alloy. Add to that the ability to pc/coat your own cast bullets. The word leading in the bbl will never come out of your mouth.

 

[David Sinko]

I'm a cheapskate so I have a very unsophisticated setup. I use a Lee Production Pot, mostly Lee molds and Lee push through sizing dies for the few bullets that I do not have powder coated. I have used all manner of lead to include wheelweights, lead pipes that were ripped out of city streets and range scrap. Nowadays I use mostly range scrap. It's essential to heat the molds (especially the Lee 6 cavity so you don't break off the sprue cutter) and I use a hot plate. The Production Pot is used on the highest setting. All the bullets go directly from the molds into a five gallon bucket of water. If the molds are properly heated at the start there will be few or even no rejects. Casting is not difficult at all and you don't need a lot of equipment to make good bullets.

 

[Degg]

IMHO:
Alloy hardness way overrated. I've been shooting nothing but 8/9bhn range scrap for decades (1980's). 50yds and closer it matters not. If you're trying to shoot flies @ 100yds then you'll need a better alloy. Add to that the ability to pc/coat your own cast bullets. The word leading in the bbl will never come out of your mouth.

"pc/coat"?? what is this?

 

[glenwolde]

I'm a relapsed bullet caster. I cast for several years in the 80's but gave it up because of work, kids, house, etc. and just started buying my bullets. Back then I'd scrounge for metal but it was a lot easier to find. I worked in the printing industry and it wasn't hard to find linotype.

Fast forward 45 years I'm retired and I took it up again. Commercial bullet casters go out of business with surprising regularity. I got tired of that, and the fact that more than a few dropped their offerings for my beloved .41 Magnum. Not to mention periodic shortages. I thought it best to take it up again so at least I would be ready if there were more supply constraints.

I found scrounging and processing scrap difficult, but not impossible. Finding and processing scrap is as much work as casting bullets. So I decided to buy it. I found I could buy it for $3 a pound. Commercially cast bullets have climbed over $5 a pound (+freight) if you do the math. It depends on weight, with the smaller bullets actually more per pound than the big ones (makes sense if you think about it.).

The $3 I pay saves me 40%+ vs commercial bullets. I've mapped out my usage pretty well and the 5,200 cast bullets I shoot a year runs me $366 with the purchased metal. At my age I have to ask myself if all the scrounging and processing is worth saving a few dollars. If I bought my bullets I'd pay $637. The savings is a bonus, I didn't take it back up with cost as the primary focus.

Especially starting out, I'd recommend you buy your metal at first so you can concentrate on learning to cast. You'll be eliminating having any alloy problems to deal with. Once you have it down you can start keeping an eye out for scrap. Powder coating (PC) instead of traditional lubrication is fantastic, and requires little investment.

 

[rockquarry]

I'm a relapsed bullet caster. I cast for several years in the 80's but gave it up because of work, kids, house, etc. and just started buying my bullets. Back then I'd scrounge for metal but it was a lot easier to find. I worked in the printing industry and it wasn't hard to find linotype.

Fast forward 45 years I'm retired and I took it up again. Commercial bullet casters go out of business with surprising regularity. I got tired of that, and the fact that more than a few dropped their offerings for my beloved .41 Magnum. Not to mention periodic shortages. I thought it best to take it up again so at least I would be ready if there were more supply constraints.

I found scrounging and processing scrap difficult, but not impossible. Finding and processing scrap is as much work as casting bullets. So I decided to buy it. I found I could buy it for $3 a pound. Commercially cast bullets have climbed over $5 a pound (+freight) if you do the math. It depends on weight, with the smaller bullets actually more per pound than the big ones (makes sense if you think about it.).

The $3 I pay saves me 40%+ vs commercial bullets. I've mapped out my usage pretty well and the 5,200 cast bullets I shoot a year runs me $366 with the purchased metal. At my age I have to ask myself if all the scrounging and processing is worth saving a few dollars. If I bought my bullets I'd pay $637. The savings is a bonus, I didn't take it back up with cost as the primary focus.

Especially starting out, I'd recommend you buy your metal at first so you can concentrate on learning to cast. You'll be eliminating having any alloy problems to deal with. Once you have it down you can start keeping an eye out for scrap. Powder coating (PC) instead of traditional lubrication is fantastic, and requires little investment.

I've also started buying lead alloy. Expensive, but you get exactly what you want without the attendant headaches of scrounging, cleaning, alloying, etc.

I don't ever recall buying cast bullets in the fifty years I've been shooting them. As you mentioned, it appears that many (maybe most) of the cast bullet businesses that start up end up failing. It would be interesting to hear the reason(s) for this happening firsthand from people that are in the business or used to be in the business. It looks like the demand for commercially cast bullets is there, but I certainly don't know a lot about this.

 

[Rudi2]

"pc/coat"?? what is this?

I would assume he is talking about powder coating his bullets.

 

[Degg]

Ok, I am going to show my green butt here - I grew up in a gardening family, not an outdoor family, so my introduction to hunting and shooting was late, very late.

I have mostly been a Clay shooter and not even a terrible amount of that. I did upland hunting when I lived in Nebraska, but at that time, my kids were young and we were busy and not to mention a single income living check to check. None of my buds really went but we got out when we could, but not much. Permission was challenging too if you didn't have a pocket full of money.

I do deer hunt now, my first was in 2020 and have each year since. I go to the store and buy my ammo in a box with pictures of a deer on it. Honestly, that is how I made my selection. Then I learned that I do not need 165 GR for Midwest Whitetail. And although there is absolutely nothing wrong with a 30-06, still have a couple, I did not need that much gun for a Midwest Whitetail, so I have added a little inventory to my arsenal. Now I am near retirement, my SIL is busy at his job, and they too are a single income, so I understand how hard it is to get out. He does take my grandson out every chance he gets, but I do have more opportunity and enjoy the time with the grandson and teaching him what I have learned.

Now, I want to teach him more about, not just calibers and boxed ammo, but the whys and how's to what we pick and do, and how things work. I think one good way to do that is making our own ammunition. I doubt that I will get extremely deep in it but at least learn the basics and be able to understand and do it. So, I will be asking some questions that may seem elementary to most all of you.

 

[Skeet 028]

I am getting out of casting...just don't need that much these days. But I sold one of my bottom pour RCBS lead melters... . bullets for rifle work fine but it is best to weigh them...2 to 5 gr variance is not a worry. Good Molds are the key. I mostly use my own lead mix. Size with Star sizers. Have 3. When I get done selling everything I will be able to buy all I'll ever need Have a few tons of lead. I used to make my own shot...Have 2 shot makers....I get about a dollar a pound for lead now. As stated seems lead casting companies come and go. I sold one company My old H&G 245 grain 41 cal GC mold...They made great bullets...but now they are gone.. Man that was a good bullet. Luckily they made me 500 as part of the deal...shoot clean through a moose/elk front to back

 

[JwesleyN]

I may, be the odd man out here, but I buy my cast bullets. Quality is excellent these days. I used to to cast, but it was tedious and seemed to take forever for the amount I wanted.

I have cast my own before but WW that aren’t zinc are getting tough to find and scrap yards won’t or can’t sell them? I’m in Ohio so they may have some law or whatever rule now? I remember going to tire shops and they would sell them for 15 cents a pound. I see pure lead for sale on places like FB marketplace and they’re asking anywhere from $1 to $2 a pound. There’s a guy at a local gun show that has hard alloy cast in Lyman ingots for $2 ea. I am fortunate that I live 40 minutes from a bullet casting and Dillon dealer called Mastercast in Enon Valley Pa. They make great bullets and the prices are so reasonable that when you do the math of ingots to made bullets in weight it’s a no brainer! I just take a drive get what I need plus no shipping.

 

[SgtDog0311]

The economical thing to do is visit your local scrap yard. What you want to do is look for specific types of lead that have a known lead, antimony, and tin content, such as wheel weights, lead pipe, lead roofing, linotype, solder, etc. Then, melt each type separately into ingots and place them into a well marked box as to the content. Then, once you have determined how hard or soft you want your bullets to be, calculate how much of each type of lead will bring you to the BHN you want. Hope that helps.

Don

“Well Marked”. Very key.

Surprising what I’d forget once I left off in the spring as I finished casting for the year. Frequently walked away from my pots thinking I’ll recall where I left off only to find myself struggling to recall where I left off last year when I started again the next year.

Too many alloys for different applications I suppose.

Good advice!

 

[tygar]

I learned to cast in the early 60s & have been making all my pistol bullets & a lot of rifle bullets since then. For pistols back then up to .44 mags, we used wheel weights. In mags if you had some tin that helped. Since there arn't lead wheel weights any more I mostly mix soft lead with printers lead. 8-10 bhn for anything not a mag. I run hot mags so I am usually in the 14bhn or sometimes a little harder but it's really just see what works & doesn't lead up badly. Rifles like 45-70 class doesn't take more than mag hardness. 2k area bullets use lino spacers with lino as needed. Faster needs harder. It's again, just see what works. For hunting bullets in mags or the bigger rifle bullets I do a bonding of soft lead nose & hard base. I always check hardness. I also pre melt lead to ingots in various hardness so all I do is put it in the pot & start dropping after another flux. It's not hard, just read up & find what works & be careful.

 

[Forrest r]

Same bullet, the green bullet is pc/coated. The grey looking bullet is traditionally cast/lubed.

 

[KenTheHunter]

This may have already been addressed but I have some questions on making bullets

How particular are you on your lead? Clean, I get that; but do you melt or buy; and do you do a hardness test? What about adding tin or other metals to it?

It all depends on what you’re going to do with it. For example, if you’re going to load mild to medium velocity loads (range ammo), then the old Lyman formula works). Hotter loads, then lynotype is better. Nowadays I just buy mine already cast.

 

[Degg]

So, there is regular "ball ammo" - that is just a plain lead bullet, right?

 

[mtgianni]

I have all four Lyman books and rate them in order of usefulness 3, 1, 4, 2. I started shooting ww in about 93. There wasn't much internet information for a while and books and conversations were very useful. Art Green and Bill Ferguson advertised in a weekly newspaper and would talk to you about mixing alloys.

If I find pure lead nowadays, I mix it with harder lead and try for a BHN between 12-16 for most of my shooting needs. I have some Linotype and will mix that if I want a harder mix.

I currently shoot lead out of 22 Hornet, occasionally 223, 7 TCU, 7/30 Waters, 7x57, 308, 30-06, 30-30, 32 Long and H&R, 357, 38, 40, 10 mm, 45 acp and 45 Colt. There may be something I left out. Powder Coating lets me shoot these with the 12-16 BHN. I don't use my hardness tester much but have found it useful in finding out what worked.

I used to stamp ingots either BHN number or lead. I now just use a permanent marker.

 

[H30]

There's a very informative website called "castboolits.gunloads.com."
It's a wealth of information about anything to do with making bullets.

 

[rockquarry]

There's a very informative website called "castboolits.gunloads.com."
It's a wealth of information about anything to do with making bullets.

Also the Cast Bullet Association website. It's a bit slow and not many posts per day, but very useful information from some true experts.

 

[bph9]

This may have already been addressed but I have some questions on making bullets

How particular are you on your lead? Clean, I get that; but do you melt or buy; and do you do a hardness test? What about adding tin or other metals to it?

Unfortunately I have bad news for you. EPA regulations prevent (legally) businesses from selling you scrap lead but some tire places (if you know them and are a customer) will sell you wheel Weights but you still have the problem of finding tin or the old fashioned printers lead (linotype metal) to insure that the lead mix filles out the bullets grooves, (its a myth Tin makes the bullet harder but its actually the antimony found in Wheel Weights that make them harder than pure lead) especially small diameter bullets or narrow grease grooves. Adding pure tin is usually too expensive. In other words casting bullets is fast becoming a lost art.

If you luck out and get linotype metal (can be used straight with no wheel weights) but mixing it 50/50 is what I usually do you and then you can then vary the diameter of your bullets to be oversize in your bore which will cut leading down to a minimum. As a last resort I sometimes even had custom molds made for me that were deliberately made oversize usually 3 thousandths. You do not have this option when you use factory made cast bullets or factory pure lead bullets.

Before you do anything read, read, read, read, manuals like the older Lyman Manuals that give you extensive information on how to cast bullets properly but ignore the idiotic advice (old wives tales) that going bore size or just 1 thousandths over produces the best accuracy. That is pure bull crap. I know I have been casting since 1968.

Cast bullets if made correctly can equal the accuracy of jacketed bullets and sometimes even surpass the accuracy of jacketed bullets in pistols and revolvers. And in the old days you could be "knee deep in brass and still shootin fast" and not break the bank in your wallet because lead, powder, and primers were affordable.

 

[glenwolde]

I have cast my own before but WW that aren’t zinc are getting tough to find and scrap yards won’t or can’t sell them? I’m in Ohio so they may have some law or whatever rule now? I remember going to tire shops and they would sell them for 15 cents a pound. I see pure lead for sale on places like FB marketplace and they’re asking anywhere from $1 to $2 a pound. There’s a guy at a local gun show that has hard alloy cast in Lyman ingots for $2 ea. I am fortunate that I live 40 minutes from a bullet casting and Dillon dealer called Mastercast in Enon Valley Pa. They make great bullets and the prices are so reasonable that when you do the math of ingots to made bullets in weight it’s a no brainer! I just take a drive get what I need plus no shipping.

I don't really trust random lead. Who knows what's in it? If I can buy known hardball alloy for $3 a pound why pay $1-$2 for mystery metal? Now I'm kind of cheap, but not that cheap. I buy my metal from The Blue Bullets, they sell alloy in the form of sprues from their casting operation. Not technically "virgin alloy", but it's only been kissed once.

https://thebluebullets.com/product/hbl/

Under "Sponsorship and Discounts" you can email them for a re-usable code for 5% off for forum members. Using the code and buying the largest quantity offered it comes to just a hair under $3.00 a pound, $2.91 to be exact. No shipping. They also didn't charge me sales tax. Even their smallest quantity with no discount is less than $3.50 a pound. I bought a small one first to try it out. I found it much easier to get going just having good alloy show up at my door.

I've also found that swaged / jacketed bullets manufacturers (Precision Delta among others) sell their scrap lead from their swaging operations. They sell 3% antimonal lead for less than my hardball. If my calculations are right 50/50 hardball and lead would be close to COWW.

Selling to home-casters helps the commercial casters keep their metal purchase volume up, and more volume = bigger discount.