Bullet weight question

[Mr_Flintstone]

I bought some .358 .38 special lead round nose that was advertised as 90 gr bullets, but they were actually 93 gr bullets. Would this cause any problems with pressure using 90 gr load data? The maximum 90 gr load data pressures run about 11,000 PSI. I don't think that the extra 3 grains would be significant, but did like to hear from some of you before loading.

 

[ageingstudent]

I bought some .358 .38 special lead round nose that was advertised as 90 gr bullets, but they were actually 93 gr bullets. Would this cause any problems with pressure using 90 gr load data? The maximum 90 gr load data pressures run about 11,000 PSI. I don't think that the extra 3 grains would be significant, but did like to hear from some of you before loading.

Not unusual with cast bullets. Just use your starting charge from your selected load data and work the load up looking for anything amiss like usual.

 

[Mr_Flintstone]

Thanks. The only reason I'm using these is for powder puff loads, so low-medium is probably all I'll load anyway.

 

[ontargetagain]

Just as a safety it might be good to check your scale for accuracy just in case.
They may be 90gr without the lube. Clean one up and check out the weight
Karl

 

[Mr_Flintstone]

Just as a safety it might be good to check your scale for accuracy just in case.
They may be 90gr without the lube. Clean one up and check out the weight
Karl

No need. They were marked on the pack Meister .358 93 gr LRN.

Only thing now is the C.O.L. Hodgdon lists the overall length of 90 gr LRNFP as 1.325". These are round nose. I seated the bullet all the way to where the nose starts to curve and used a Lee factory crimp die. The overall length was 1.380". I don't think the extra 0.055" would mean much going from flat point to round nose.

Anyway I made some up with 4.0 gr AutoComp, and they felt like shooting a .22 magnum.

 

[mikld]

Nope, no problem (90 gr is kinda light for a 38 Special though, do they have a crimp groove?). As with any new component, start with the starting loads and work up if necessary...

 

[Mr_Flintstone]

Nope, no problem (90 gr is kinda light for a 38 Special though, do they have a crimp groove?). As with any new component, start with the starting loads and work up if necessary...

No crimp groove. I'm still trying to figure the Lee factory crimp die out though. I followed the directions that came with the die, and I can't tell that they've crimped at all.

Directions say tighten die until it touches the shell holder, insert round with seated bullet, tighten adjuster screw until it touches, lower round, and tighten 1/2 turn for light crimp and 1 turn for heavy crimp. When I do this, I can't see any difference between no crimp, light crimp, and heavy crimp.

Update: I think I'm going to stay away from AutoComp for minimum loads. I had very inconsistent results. Some rounds felt like heavier loads. Some felt like 22 shorts. There was no pattern, and they didn't get progressively worse. It seemed that the first shot was always the lightest though. Ironically, the ones that felt like 22 shorts blew the primers back to where the cylinder wouldn't rotate. The heavier feeling loads didn't do this. Also, if I held the gun muzzle up before I started shooting, I never got the "squib feeling" shots. If I held it muzzle down, the majority were the very light ones. Either way, there was no consistency to the rounds even though I double checked all of my charges, and measured each round after seating.

 

[ageingstudent]

No crimp groove. I'm still trying to figure the Lee factory crimp die out though. I followed the directions that came with the die, and I can't tell that they've crimped at all.

Directions say tighten die until it touches the shell holder, insert round with seated bullet, tighten adjuster screw until it touches, lower round, and tighten 1/2 turn for light crimp and 1 turn for heavy crimp. When I do this, I can't see any difference between no crimp, light crimp, and heavy crimp.

Update: I think I'm going to stay away from AutoComp for minimum loads. I had very inconsistent results. Some rounds felt like heavier loads. Some felt like 22 shorts. There was no pattern, and they didn't get progressively worse. It seemed that the first shot was always the lightest though. Ironically, the ones that felt like 22 shorts blew the primers back to where the cylinder wouldn't rotate. The heavier feeling loads didn't do this. Also, if I held the gun muzzle up before I started shooting, I never got the "squib feeling" shots. If I held it muzzle down, the majority were the very light ones. Either way, there was no consistency to the rounds even though I double checked all of my charges, and measured each round after seating.

You may be having issues getting that fine slow-er powder to ignite and burn consistently under that light for caliber bullet.

 

[Wise_A]

Autocomp is a horrendously slow powder, and 90/93 grains is a horrendously light bullet for .38 Spl. You're simply not going to get decent results.

To start with, I would be looking at Bullseye, N310, Red Dot, 700X, maybe Clays, and maybe Titegroup. Really no slower than that.

The other thing I would do is consider switching to at least a 120-grain bullet. You can easily load .38 Spl for $4 a box with even a 158-grain bullet, and recoil is almost negligible at that weight.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Heavier bullets use less powder that lighter ones. It is perfectly safe to load those 93gr bullets with 90gr data.

Are you sure those bullets are meant for the .38 Special considering there is no crimp groove? Possibly 9mm or 380 Auto?

I would be using W231 in this application.

 

[chief38]

Don't be surprised if the bullets hit very low!

 

[gwpercle]

Short answer ...No.
Light target loads....Bullseye, Red Dot, 700X, AA#2, Titegroup, these types have a faster burn rate suited to low pressure low velocity loads.
AutoComp is going to suck rocks.
Bullets with no cannelure or crimpgroove can be taper crimped , I use a 9 mm luger taper crimp die with these bullets on 38/357 , works well.

Tip- 148 grain lead wadcutter over 2.7 grains Bullseye...it magic in a 38 special....SWEET !
Gary

 

[Mr_Flintstone]

I think I'll make some more of these today, but I'm going to make some changes. First, no more AutoComp. I'm going to use either Titegroup or Trail Boss (I don't have any Bullseye). They are both pretty fast burning, and I'm leaning toward Trail Boss because it will fill the case better; although Titegroup will give me another 100 fps. Next, I'm going to get a good magnifying glass to examine my crimps. As I get older, I can't see things like bullet crimps as good. I may even use my bullet seater die for a light crimp. I can see those a little better. I'm also going to go up to near max load data, which is still just around 11,000 psi. Hopefully I'll get a better batch of rounds.

 

[gwpercle]

Titegroup ..excellent . I've no experience with Trail Boss but should be fine also.
38 special dies usually come with a roll crimp in the seater die.
Light crimp , or case may bulge with smooth sided bullets. Seating and crimping in separate steps will help also .
Good luck, load safe,
Gary

 

[Mr_Flintstone]

I made some with a medium Trail Boss charge, and a light roll crimp with the seater die. They worked perfectly. Hodgdon should take that AutoComp minimum charge out, or at least add a disclaimer that it should be used in a longer barrel.

 

[Wise_A]

The problem is that a bullet that light doesn't present enough resistance to the powder to reach a good pressure. That doesn't mean it's impossible, or that it will squib (although it's far more likely to do so), it just means it won't burn well consistently. When that happens, you get extreme position sensitivity, inconsistent velocities, etc.

There are a lot of powder/bullet combinations that can probably be made to work well-enough in a lab setting, but which aren't good matches in the real world. I think they should still be left in--somebody, somewhere, is going to insist on using a poorly-matched powder/bullet combination, so at least they'll be doing it with data.

 

[ageingstudent]

I made some with a medium Trail Boss charge, and a light roll crimp with the seater die. They worked perfectly. Hodgdon should take that AutoComp minimum charge out, or at least add a disclaimer that it should be used in a longer barrel.

It's why we work up a load that's unfamiliar and pay attention to how it's acting and ask others to share their experience. You learned a lot about erratic performance using slow powder in that application. Slow powders need that extra couple microseconds provided by the heavier bullet to get up to pressure consistently. I did something similar myself some years ago.

 

[mikld]

I looked up that bullet in my Lyman 50th and it seems to be a 380 design but can be used in 9mm and 38. Personally, I wouldn't try that bullet in 38 Special as the lightest bullet I've found to be consistent, accurate and light shooting is the Lee 125 RBFP..