Can UPS refuse to ship a gun?

[Florida Guy]

May be buying a gun from resident of same state. I've read it is legal for him to send it directly to me, bypassing an FFL.
He said he's tried it before, and they refused to ship it.

Have you had any experience with UPS?
Can they refuse to ship?

 

[wbraswell]

This is legal, if it's a long gun. A handgun has to go through an FFL.

 

[Firehouse]

If it were me, anytime I attempt to ship a weapon via common carrier I would use an FFL. It's cheap insurance in the event of a problem, and if it's damaged it will go a lot further in recouping an insurance claim. Trust me.

 

[NKJ nut]

Here's a little light reading on UPS's stated policy on shipping firearms:UPS: Shipping Firearms

 

[k22fan]

This is legal, if it's a long gun. A handgun has to go through an FFL.

This would vary by state law of course but I believe that under my state's laws and federal law the handgun would not have to go through an FFL and another member recently also posted that is the case. However I'm not in the business and don't keep current on laws. As you understand it, is the requirement that a hand gun shipped intrastate must go through an FFL local or federal and if it's federal can you help me find the relevent law?
Thank-you,
Gil

If it were me, anytime I attempt to ship a weapon via common carrier I would use an FFL. It's cheap insurance in the event of a problem, and if it's damaged it will go a lot further in recouping an insurance claim. Trust me.

I don't know if it would be easier to collect on an insurance claim or not. If it's shipped through an FFL you would have to collect from that FFL because you would not be UPS's customer. It would be easier to prove to the insurance company what was in the box but you'd be dependant on the FFL to persue it on your behalf and you'd probably loose your money if the FFL went out of business while the fiasco was in progress.

 

[Firehouse]

The idea that the FFL would have to file the claim is a relevant fact. But as an FFL holder myself, and having to have filed a claim with USPS for a damaged shipment, in my situation, being an FFL holder helped tremendously with getting my money back. As for getting the funds back for the seller as the shipping dealer, that goes along with the idea of paying for the services of using an FFL holder to ship, in my opinion. That's part of the services I am getting paid for, to insure that the sellers gun gets to its destination, whether to me or another dealer I ship to. And to follow up on it if there is a problem. Which I have had to do on occasion. As for as being concerned about a dealer going out of business during such a problem, one could "What if?" any situation to the point of living in a shell. JMO.

 

[Alpo]

K22, your information is right, but your term is wrong.

InTRAstate is within the same state. Tampa to Miami, or Houston to Dallas is inTRAstate.

InTERstate is between states. Tampa to Dallas would be inTERstate.

And, yes, you are right and wbraswell is wrong.
ATF Online - Firearms - Frequently Asked Questions - Unlicensed Persons
>Q: May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U.S. Postal Service? A nonlicensee may not transfer a firearm to a non-licensed resident of another State. A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. The Postal Service recommends that long guns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun.
[18 U.S.C. 1715, 922(a)(3), 922(a)(5) and 922 (a)(2)(A)]


Q: May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier? A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.
[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]<

If he is shipping intrastate - Miami to Tallahassee, or Jacksonville to Pensacola, then it does not matter whether it is a shotgun, rifle, pistol or machine gun, he can ship it directly, without involving an FFL. He can mail the rifle or shotgun, and has to mail the machine gun because FedEx and UPS won't accept them, but he has to send the pistol "common carrier" - FedEx or UPS. And, yes, even though it is perfectly legal to send it that way, quite often the local FedEx or UPS facility will not accept it because there is not an FFL involved.

 

[deadin]

Wasn't the OP's original question whether or not UPS could refuse a shipment?? Being a private company I think they have the right to refuse if they so desire.....
(Not good business, but still their right.)

 

[Rule3]

Alpo has it correct.

Do not confuse a UPS Store with the actual UPS terminal.

The UPS store is privately owned and they do not have to accept anything they do not want to.

Take it to the main UPS hub/terminal in your area.

 

[k22fan]

Thank-you Alpo!

Alpo, that's great information that clears up the discussion. However, the original poster was asking about shipping a handgun within Florida (intrastate). Now it's up to him to check out Florida's laws. For the original poster's benifit I'll add that the owner of a local drugstore that handles packages for UPS told me UPS never ships guns when she should have said that UPS requires guns to be dropped off at their own facility. UPS does not allow their sub-contractors like the drugstore to accept guns on their behalf. A similiar situation might be the root of the original poster's confusion.

Gil

 

[Florida Guy]

Florida law allows intRAstate shipping for handguns.

Thank you ladder13 for correcting me.

 

[crofoot629]

I believe UPS policy is that on at least one end of the shipment, either the shipper, or consignee, must be a FFL holder.

It doesn’t matter if the law says its legal intrastate or not, if it’s against a private company’s policy.

I know a guy who in his youth shipped a handgun from Alaska to himself in another state and lied to UPS as to the contents of the package. I believe that is a mistake of judgment that in this case I’ll chock up to youth. If you ship a gun and lie to UPS, or other common carrier, as to the contents being say machined parts, I believe you are breaking the law and not just UPS policy.

It aint worth it says the middle aged man.

So in short, yes they can refuse to ship it.

Emory

 

[ladder13]

Florida law allows interstate shipping for handguns.

you mean intra?

 

[Muley Gil]

This is taken from NKJ nut's UPS link:

"from and between persons not otherwise prohibited from shipping firearms by federal, state or local law, and when such shipment complies with all federal, state and local laws applicable to the shipper, recipient, and package."

I shipped a handgun to a fellow Virginia in 2009 via UPS. I had the BATF law printed out, as well as the UPS regs. I had to talk to several UPS supervisors, including a couple over the telephone. In the end, they DID ship the handgun INTRASTATE to a non-licensee.

It can be done. Be patient, be courteous, and be patient.

And I did take the handgun to the regional hub. The shipping clerks were cheering for me when the tranaction was completed, saying that they had learned something that day.

 

[Firehouse]

Some UPS stores, particularly my local one, are reluctant to deal with shipping anything firearm related. Rather than educate themselves about the laws and regulations, they simply choose to just not deal with it. Which I guess is their right to do so as a private business.

 

[Engine 21]

Not Exactly

Some UPS stores, particularly my local one, are reluctant to deal with shipping anything firearm related. Rather than educate themselves about the laws and regulations, they simply choose to just not deal with it. Which I guess is their right to do so as a private business.

As a former owner of a "The UPS Store" I can tell you that UPS strictly forbids shipment of firearms and/or ammunition to and from any UPS Store. It is not a question of educating anyone. If UPS finds you are shipping forbidden products they can and will pull your account - refuse to service your store and, basically at that point put you out of business. My advice - go through an FFL or see what Fedex has to say. Policy varies from company to company. I do know if you lie about the contents of a shipped package and it's overnighted for next day delivery if found out that it's a firearm you now get to deal with the FAA and a lot of other Federal agencies not in a good way.

 

[FirebirdV8]

As a former owner of a "The UPS Store" I can tell you that UPS strictly forbids shipment of firearms and/or ammunition to and from any UPS Store. It is not a question of educating anyone. If UPS finds you are shipping forbidden products they can and will pull your account - refuse to service your store and, basically at that point put you out of business. My advice - go through an FFL or see what Fedex has to say. Policy varies from company to company. I do know if you lie about the contents of a shipped package and it's overnighted for next day delivery if found out that it's a firearm you now get to deal with the FAA and a lot of other Federal agencies not in a good way.

As a former employee of a UPS Store, I will second your statement. I was told, very clearly, that we could not ship firearms, fireworks, certain types of batteries, etc. Of course the clerk should also be informed to send the customer to the local hub for shipping certain items that Store can't ship.

Also, on the original topic, we live a free country. A company can refuse to do a lot of things. Is it good business? No. I would suggest following Muely Gil's advice on shipping a firearm at the hub. As much as we all believe knowledge of the laws, rules, and operations of firearms should be more common, it isn't. It requires patience and a cool head to help teach those who should already know what is what in regards to guns.

 

[Froggy044]

Some UPS stores, particularly my local one, are reluctant to deal with shipping anything firearm related. Rather than educate themselves about the laws and regulations, they simply choose to just not deal with it. Which I guess is their right to do so as a private business.

Getting Your Firearm Shipment to UPS
Firearms (including handguns) may be shipped only through a UPS Scheduled Pickup Account (specifically, Daily Pickup, Daily On-Route Pickup, UPS Smart Pickup, and Day-Specific Pickup), or through a UPS Customer Center (counters at UPS operational facilities). Note: Firearms (including handguns) are not accepted for shipment via, UPS Drop Boxes, UPS On-Call PickupSM, or at locations of The UPS Store® or any third party retailer. When you are shipping a package that contains a handgun, you must verbally notify the UPS driver or UPS Customer Center clerk.
See the terms and conditions in the UPS Tariff/Terms and Conditions of Service for information regarding firearm shipments.

 

[wbraswell]

Thank you Alpo. I am very pleased to be mistaken on this issue. I have rights I thought were taken away by GCA '68. So, since I live in Texas, does this mean that if I buy a handgun online from another Texan, who isn't a FFL, he can ship it to me instead of my dealer? Private transactions between individuals in Texas are legal.

 

[Firehouse]

Now that I have been educated about UPS stores, my apologies. I guess I don't understand why an establishment with UPS plastered all over it won't (or can't as I have now been educated) handle certain items and require being carried to a hub. The closest hub to me is 50 miles. My closest local post office is 3. So I ship everything USPS.

Thanks for the explanations, and my apologies if offended. It has been an eye opener.