Can you guys splain to me the different length actions?

[ABPOS]

I've heard the term "long action" before and I really have no clue what people are meaning. Like what is a long action or short action. How do you know the difference and when did it change? And what frames are they meaning? I think it's K frames but I don't really know for sure.

Thank you for the edumacation.

 

[hkcavalier]

There's a lively discussion on this very topic in another thread today.

Pre-14 Target Masterpiece

 

[Sevens]

I don't know much, but I know a quick shortcut that has worked for me and may help you a bit. Without knowing a lot more... the long action was what was used in the older guns (pre-WWII or thereabouts) and you can see an exposed hammer pin on the LEFT side of the revolver very near the cylinder thumb piece. I have a couple Hand Ejectors (pre-Model 10, K-frame .38 Specials) from 1917 and 1921 and they are long actions.

The modern action does not have this exposed hammer pin. All the great revolvers from the late 50's through today have the modern action.

 

[JP@AK]

the long action was what was used in the older guns (pre-WWII or thereabouts) and you can see an exposed hammer pin on the LEFT side of the revolver very near the cylinder thumb piece.

You are on the right track, but let me clear up a detail or two.

First, the "pin" is the end of the threaded hammer pivot stud - it was threaded into the frame's left side. The later type was pressed into the frame and polished flat during the finishing process.

Second, the threaded stud went away on the K frames in 1946, approximately two years before the "High Speed" hammer was introduced into production. So there are a bunch of S prefix M&P revolvers with the pressed stud and the long throw hammer.

Details:
The change order for the hammer pivot stud was issued on January 18, 1946. The pressed stud entered production at about serial number S819462. Shipments of guns using the new stud seem to have started in April, 1946.

The change order for the High Speed hammer was implemented at approximate serial number S990184. The earliest ship date I have for an M&P with the High Speed hammer is March, 1948.

 

[DWalt]

"...the long action was what was used in the older guns (pre-WWII or thereabouts)"

At least for the K-frame M&P revolvers, the long action was used up until about the beginning of the C-series in early 1948.

 

[paplinker]

Short action on the left. Long action on the right.

 

[Hondo44]

The short action, alternately labeled by S&W as the “High Speed Action” and “Short Cocking Action”.

The speed action was the 2nd design improvement (after the new sliding bar hammer block safety), on all post war K and N frames.

The speed action was implemented on K frames in 1946 (K targets), 1948 (K fixed sights) and N frames on the Models of 1950, all using new but different speed action hammers.

NOTE: I and J frames did not get the high speed action.


Distance between top of hammer face to top of hammer channel.
Short action = .812”; Long action = 1.033”

The hammer is the easiest way to tell:
Long actions only have pre war hammers; short actions have post war hammers of different shapes (except the K22/40 which used a pre war hammer).

 

[Modified]

Short action on the left. Long action on the right.

Joker...

You can go ahead and send me that King short action conversion... I know you have no use for it.

What Rich here was showing is a conversion to a short action, something that people did before the actual short action was introduced (with the K-22 Masterpiece, pre-war, often called the K22/40).

Some short actions were a little on the extreme side, like this one of mine:



If you compare that double action pull to any of your old long action guns (or even any short action) you will notice the difference.

Still not sure who did the work on this one. The funny thing about this gun was that it was shipped out to the Boston police department. Not with that action work done to it though.

 

[JP@AK]

Attached below is a photo of two S prefix M&Ps. The one on the right has the older, long action hammer. On the left is a newer one with the "High Speed" hammer.

 

[ABPOS]

I'm gonna have to check my model 19.... I thought that hammer went all the way to the frame when I cocked it.....

 

[rct269]

All these pictures and comments are correct, but I don't know that they answer your question.

The terms "long action" and "short action" refer to the distance the hammer falls once it's been released by the trigger. More specifically, the terms refer to the amount of time it takes for the hammer to fall/for the gun to fire.

I know of three (hand ejector revolver) actions (from the factory) extant within the 20th century. The pre-war "long action"---the post-war "short action"----the action on the single action only K-38 which is shorter yet.

As an aside, we had occasion to measure the "short action" and the "shorter yet" action during the Southeast Bunch gathering in South Carolina today. I had said it was 20% shorter/faster in the other thread----a close, but no cigar answer. Assuming I've understood and done the math correctly (not an assumption you want to bet money on) it's closer to 14%.

Ralph Tremaine

 

[cgt4570]

I'm gonna have to check my model 19.... I thought that hammer went all the way to the frame when I cocked it.....


ALL Model 19's and pre-19s are short action. That model didn't exist until around 1957.

 

[Hondo44]

All these pictures and comments are correct, but I don't know that they answer your question.

The terms "long action" and "short action" refer to the distance the hammer falls once it's been released by the trigger. More specifically, the terms refer to the amount of time it takes for the hammer to fall/for the gun to fire.

I know of three (hand ejector revolver) actions (from the factory) extant within the 20th century. The pre-war "long action"---the post-war "short action"----the action on the single action only K-38 which is shorter yet.

As an aside, we had occasion to measure the "short action" and the "shorter yet" action during the Southeast Bunch gathering in South Carolina today. I had said it was 20% shorter/faster in the other thread----a close, but no cigar answer. Assuming I've understood and done the math correctly (not an assumption you want to bet money on) it's closer to 14%.

Ralph Tremaine

I think you were right the 1st time, at least it's a lot closer to my feeble calcs:

From my dimensions; the long is 1.033 and .812 short action hammer travel, with a difference of .221 less travel divided by 1.033 = a reduction of 21.4%.

Reportedly one other pre war action is a bit shorter than the long action which is the Triple Lock.