Car Batteries and sub-0 temps
- Thread starter BAM-BAM
- Start date
Batteries are much better that they used to be.
I bought my first new car in Dec 1980, Dec 1983 and Dec 1986 I had to replace the battery.
Two winters ago I left my Ford exploder with over 100,000 miles and a seven year old battery sit outside for three days, the warmest it got was -30. Monday morning it started right up.
I bought my first new car in Dec 1980, Dec 1983 and Dec 1986 I had to replace the battery.
Two winters ago I left my Ford exploder with over 100,000 miles and a seven year old battery sit outside for three days, the warmest it got was -30. Monday morning it started right up.
I agree with steamloco76 on this one. Also, reading the other posts, other forum members have been successful using the light bulb. I've never tried it.
IIRC, batteries are rated on cranking power. Extremes of temperatures (hot or cold) really boost the demand for that power. I can't speak for extreme cold (thankfully we don't have it in Georgia) but I do know that on a really hot day, a battery that should have been replaced months ago will fail with no advance warning, at the worst possible time (late at night), in the worst possible places (poorly lighted parking lots in high crime areas). Been there, done that!
My recommendations:
1. If your battery is older than four years, replace it before hot or cold weather season.
2. If in doubt, go to a dealer, big box store, auto parts store etc. and have it tested, then make your decision. Second opinions are recommended if you believe they just want to sell you a new battery. There's usually no charge for these tests.
I've owned cars since 1962. It seems to me that back in the day we'd have some warning that a battery was about to fail. Many people (like me) had jumper cables in their cars. I still do. But today, these batteries fail with no warning at all.
IIRC, batteries are rated on cranking power. Extremes of temperatures (hot or cold) really boost the demand for that power. I can't speak for extreme cold (thankfully we don't have it in Georgia) but I do know that on a really hot day, a battery that should have been replaced months ago will fail with no advance warning, at the worst possible time (late at night), in the worst possible places (poorly lighted parking lots in high crime areas). Been there, done that!
My recommendations:
1. If your battery is older than four years, replace it before hot or cold weather season.
2. If in doubt, go to a dealer, big box store, auto parts store etc. and have it tested, then make your decision. Second opinions are recommended if you believe they just want to sell you a new battery. There's usually no charge for these tests.
I've owned cars since 1962. It seems to me that back in the day we'd have some warning that a battery was about to fail. Many people (like me) had jumper cables in their cars. I still do. But today, these batteries fail with no warning at all.
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Cold Start
About 20-25 years ago, took the family to visit cousins in Montreal Canada with our conversion van. Long story short, temps fell to 30 below zero without wind chill and the van died in the hotel parking lot.
Had it flatbedded out for service. Got new battery and oil change to 5W-30. They did something else although I can't remember. Next morning, the engine groaned but started, again at 30 or more below zero.
My current Subaru has provisions to accept a block heater but it rarely falls below zero in my area.
About 20-25 years ago, took the family to visit cousins in Montreal Canada with our conversion van. Long story short, temps fell to 30 below zero without wind chill and the van died in the hotel parking lot.
Had it flatbedded out for service. Got new battery and oil change to 5W-30. They did something else although I can't remember. Next morning, the engine groaned but started, again at 30 or more below zero.
My current Subaru has provisions to accept a block heater but it rarely falls below zero in my area.
This is correct. There are many inexpensive fuel additives on the market now that will keep your fuel from freezing and also help clean your injectors. Obviously there are areas in the country that have extreme temperatures and you must take measures For your oil and all fluids. Most areas have very few if any days in a typical Winter to worry about their fluids in a gas engine.
With that being said the absolute worst thing for a normal car battery is for the volts to continually run down then charge back up. This will ruin your battery quicker than anything. A normal car battery is not made for this and it will eventually not hold a charge. You take a typical marine battery that is made strictly for boats and particularly trolling motors they are what is referred to as a DEEP CYCLE battery. This type of battery is made to constantly lose the charge and then be fully recharged. That's one of the reasons that a marine battery is more expensive than a car battery. That is why I use and suggest a battery maintainer especially if it's a vehicle that will sit for a few days or more. The maintainer will keep your battery fully charged. When it's connected it will trickle charge the battery until it's fully charged and then go into a stand by mode. When the battery starts to lose its charge it will go back to charging mode.
Grayfox
US Veteran
42 years as a truck/equipment mechanic has taught me a few things about batteries and cold weather starting.
Block heaters are your friend.
In cold climates, battery heaters are friendly too.
Always buy the best battery with the highest Cold Cranking Amps you can afford.
Keep connections clean and tight.
Buy and carry GOOD jumper cables in each vehicle.
Replace batteries every three years regardless of warranty.
Write the install date on a new battery with permanent marker so you don't have to guess.
On each regular service, test the alternator and check/inspect ground connections.
As already noted, modern batteries give absolutely no warning (slow cranking) of impending failure. I've seen vehicles start just fine and an hour later be stone dead.
When in doubt, change it out.
Block heaters are your friend.
In cold climates, battery heaters are friendly too.
Always buy the best battery with the highest Cold Cranking Amps you can afford.
Keep connections clean and tight.
Buy and carry GOOD jumper cables in each vehicle.
Replace batteries every three years regardless of warranty.
Write the install date on a new battery with permanent marker so you don't have to guess.
On each regular service, test the alternator and check/inspect ground connections.
As already noted, modern batteries give absolutely no warning (slow cranking) of impending failure. I've seen vehicles start just fine and an hour later be stone dead.
When in doubt, change it out.
There are a few things I don't see covered here, so I'll chime in.
I live in Michigan, so I've seen/experienced cold weather. The light bulb under the hood works, but needs some explanation. As has been mentioned, the warmer a battery is, the more power it will put out, but that wasn't the true reason for putting the light under the hood. The battery needed more power because turning over the engine in cold weather was/is more difficult, and the reason for this difficulty was the engine oil. As temps drop, all liquids move towards becoming solid and motor oil is especially affected by colder temp. Vehicles of old used straight weight oils like 10w or 30w, and at 0 degrees (F) 30 weight oil pours about like cold tar. Multi grade oils, like 10w-30 help combat this. The designation of 10w-30 means the oil has a viscosity of 10 weight oil, but at normal engine temps (which thin out standard oil viscosity) the oil behaves the same as 30 weight at that same temp. This helped make engines easier to start in cold temps, because the lower the weight of an oil, the better it flows, but another big break through came with synthetic oils. Pure synthetic oil (not the blended stuff) flows even better. A 10w-30 synthetic for example will flow as good, if not better at -30(F) than a regular 10w-30 does at 0(F). At -30, a standard 10w-30 will flow slower than molasses in January at the north pole. And turning an engine over that is filled with oil that thick is why cold engines crank over so slow on cold days. Once the starter get everything moving, the engine will spin a bit faster, but getting past that initial crank over is what can kill a battery. In this regard, a pure synthetic can really outshine regular or even as mentioned, blended synthetics (which typically means a little synthetic oil with the remainder regular oil). Experts say that most engine wear occurs when starting, and since synthetic flows better at lower temps, it follows that less engine wear occurs. It's why I use pure synthetic in every engine I have. Even my air compressor, which is electrically driven, has synthetic oil in it's crankcase.
So, getting back to the original question: does the light bulb help? Yes, it does. It warms the battery, which gives it a boost in energy. But with today's cars and today's oils, if your vehicle won't start in cold weather, it's a sign your battery is on the way out the door - light under the hood or not.
I live in Michigan, so I've seen/experienced cold weather. The light bulb under the hood works, but needs some explanation. As has been mentioned, the warmer a battery is, the more power it will put out, but that wasn't the true reason for putting the light under the hood. The battery needed more power because turning over the engine in cold weather was/is more difficult, and the reason for this difficulty was the engine oil. As temps drop, all liquids move towards becoming solid and motor oil is especially affected by colder temp. Vehicles of old used straight weight oils like 10w or 30w, and at 0 degrees (F) 30 weight oil pours about like cold tar. Multi grade oils, like 10w-30 help combat this. The designation of 10w-30 means the oil has a viscosity of 10 weight oil, but at normal engine temps (which thin out standard oil viscosity) the oil behaves the same as 30 weight at that same temp. This helped make engines easier to start in cold temps, because the lower the weight of an oil, the better it flows, but another big break through came with synthetic oils. Pure synthetic oil (not the blended stuff) flows even better. A 10w-30 synthetic for example will flow as good, if not better at -30(F) than a regular 10w-30 does at 0(F). At -30, a standard 10w-30 will flow slower than molasses in January at the north pole. And turning an engine over that is filled with oil that thick is why cold engines crank over so slow on cold days. Once the starter get everything moving, the engine will spin a bit faster, but getting past that initial crank over is what can kill a battery. In this regard, a pure synthetic can really outshine regular or even as mentioned, blended synthetics (which typically means a little synthetic oil with the remainder regular oil). Experts say that most engine wear occurs when starting, and since synthetic flows better at lower temps, it follows that less engine wear occurs. It's why I use pure synthetic in every engine I have. Even my air compressor, which is electrically driven, has synthetic oil in it's crankcase.
So, getting back to the original question: does the light bulb help? Yes, it does. It warms the battery, which gives it a boost in energy. But with today's cars and today's oils, if your vehicle won't start in cold weather, it's a sign your battery is on the way out the door - light under the hood or not.
I agree, but with a couple caveats.
1. Lets be clear on the terminology and uses.
Deep cycle batteries are designed to provide power over longer period of time, but at fairly low current rates. For example a group 29M deep cycle batter will provide 15 amps for about 6 hours or 5 amps for about 19-20 hours.
They will not develop the cranking amps needed to start a large automotive engine in cold weather, and trying to draw too many amps from them can damage the battery. They also need to e charged slower and over along period of time than a car battery.
Car batteries on the other hand are designed to provide a very high discharge rate of up to 1000 amps. They are designed to dump all their stored energy in a very short period of time. Under normal service they dump a lot of amps quickly starting your car and then recharge very quickly and 50 to 70 amp alternators are common on passenger cars today.
There are also dual purpose batteries that can provide both a number of minimum cranking amps and cold cranking amps, and maintain a lower rate of discharge over a long period of time. They do both tasks but won't do either one as well as a dedicated battery.
2. Not all "trickle" chargers are created equal.
Battery maintainers or smart chargers that monitor voltage and charge rate and cycle through a main charge, a trickle charge and a maintenance "float" charge phase where it keeps the battery topped off without over charging are a good thing.
Trickle chargers that just charge at a constant low rate are much less expensive but absent some form of internal or external charge controller, they will fry your battery.
Also, smart chargers respond to the battery's voltage, so if you get a cell that starts to go bad, the battery's voltage never gets high enough to kick the charger into the float mode, or if the cell is bad enough it will stay in the main charge mode. Either way, what you have then is a trickle charger that fries what is left of the battery. So if you notice that your battery maintainer / smart charges isn't kicking down into the appropriate mode, it's telling you you've got a bad cell. Ignore that at your peril.
Well after living in frigid Minnesota for years your options are:
Disconnect the battery every night and carry it inside and tuck it in with a blanket,
OR
Invest in a engine heater and plug that in. Simple .
Of course you still need a new-ish, top of the line battery,
2016 Subaru. #A091SVA000: Engine Block Heater
Disconnect the battery every night and carry it inside and tuck it in with a blanket,
ORInvest in a engine heater and plug that in. Simple .
Of course you still need a new-ish, top of the line battery,
2016 Subaru. #A091SVA000: Engine Block Heater
I don't know what the temp is here now but at noon it was 23 with about a 30 mph wind.
Here, it's forecast to get down to -20F, not including wind chill, on Saturday night. That's defintely "plug in the truck weather".
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Depends on where in Texas you live. We lived in Amarillo in the late '60's where it is ALWAYS cold and windy.
Had a '69 Dodge Superbee 6 pack. 440 engine with 3 deuces (3 two barrel carburetors for you youngsters). Garage kept, but still got below freezing in the unattached garage. Cold morning starting procedures would go like this:
1. remove the four hood pins (fiberglass hood/air scoop)
2. completely remove the hood after releasing hood from functional air intake scoop.
3. remove the HUGE air breather and set aside.
4. as engine started off middle carb, would not get enough gas to start when cold, had to pour about a pint of gas in middle carb.
5. get into car and attempt to start (sometimes had to repeat step 4. Car would sputter, backfire a couple of times before starting.
6. would have to jump out of car, frantically find a towel or something similar to put out the small fires in engine compartment, garage floor, walls, and sometimes ceiling resulting from the backfiring.
7. reassemble breather, scoop and hood and it was good for rest of the day until next morning.
BUT.......it was fast, and when your 18-19 years old, that's what matters.
SW MP15
Member
The first thing, well one of the first things I do when I purchase a vehicle to keep. I replace the battery with a Optima Battery. Yellow top for my high compression hot rods and red tops in my daily drivers. I never have a battery issue, no matter what the temperature. And one less thing to worry about.
gman51
Member
Years ago living in Ohio we had -59 below chill factor. I turned the key on my 72 Chevy p/up and not even a click just a faint humming. One problem was I didn't have multi grade oil in the engine. My CB microphone cable was froze solid.
I drained the oil and installed an inline radiator hose heater. Buddy that was the cats meow. Had heat coming out the vents right away and the engine spun over like it was summertime. The part cost under $20 back then.
Heat and extreme cold will take a toll on a battery so it would be good to have it checked before cold weather comes. A weak battery will take a dump without a second notice in cold weather for sure. For the most part a good battery will not have a problem freezing in the average winter. Now I am not talking about Alaska.
I drained the oil and installed an inline radiator hose heater. Buddy that was the cats meow. Had heat coming out the vents right away and the engine spun over like it was summertime. The part cost under $20 back then.
Heat and extreme cold will take a toll on a battery so it would be good to have it checked before cold weather comes. A weak battery will take a dump without a second notice in cold weather for sure. For the most part a good battery will not have a problem freezing in the average winter. Now I am not talking about Alaska.
grcoffman104
Member
Lived in Amarillo 50 years.
Had a old electric blanket in garage that would lie over engine of my rig in the garage
Remove and fold up prior to driving away
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk
Had a old electric blanket in garage that would lie over engine of my rig in the garage
Remove and fold up prior to driving away
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk
That's too bad. Optima is not the same battery it was years ago, as is evidenced by their changed warranty. The last one I had lived 18 months before going belly up.
-23 F this morning both the 15 Forester and 08 Ram started with no problems. Both were parked outside in it, no garage in our rental and the grandkids are being held inside until the sun hits the yard. Life is good.
OP
Well no issues with the Forester starting the last 2 mornings with temps of 11 and 8 but this AM is another story..........
1/4 inch of ice on everything............LOL........but it's not blocking any garage doors!!!!
It's going up to around 50 later today and staying above freezing for 36 hours...
1/4 inch of ice on everything............LOL........but it's not blocking any garage doors!!!!
It's going up to around 50 later today and staying above freezing for 36 hours...
I got my oil changed at the Toyota dealer yesterday and they checked my battery and told me it was bad. So I went to Auto Zone and they checked it and they put in a new Duralast Gold battery for free since mine was under a 3 year "free replacement" warranty. That's the only battery I will ever buy because it will always start the car perfectly but it will fail the test after a 2 or 2-1/2 years so I get free one as long as I own the vehicle.
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