Cast bullets questions

[lestuder3]

I am new to reloading and I read on another website that cast bullets must be at least 0.001" larger than the groove diameter of your barrel. Is this true? Also what are cast bullets and what is the difference between them and whatever other bullets are out there?

Thanks and God bless.

 

[fredj338]

As a general rule, yes, for best results, a cast lead bullet should be at least 0.001" larger than bore dia. A lead bullet has no coating to prevent leading at higher vel.
There are swaged or cast lead, coated lead, plated, jacketed & mono metal bullets. Lead & coated lead pretty much load the same. The rest all load diff as to charge wts. Jacketed are best for higher vel but more expensive. Just starting out, stick to jacketed for your first 1000rds, they are easiest to get good results with.

 

[lestuder3]

Thanks fredj338. I really hope I didn't waste my money on 1000 bullets. I'll find out soon enough.

 

[Rutgers]

Accurate Cast Bullets

Get your hands on a copy of the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook. It will tell you all you ever wanted to know about cast bullets and more. I started on cast bullets and that was mostly what I shot for the better part of 20 years. Got busy for a while and lost my supply of wheel weight material that I made up back when it was good stuff.

Now I am struggling to find appropriate material for good bullets. My molds are going to get a workout if I can find some.

Sizing them, and in my case applying a gas check to prevent leading and allowing much higher velocities is the way to go.

Regards

Rutger

 

[fredj338]

FYI, a gc just isn't needed for handgun vel, just get your alloy right. Clip ww are good for vel to 1250-1300fps, sized right. You can go even higher in lower pressure rds like 45-70. Water drop them & run them @ 2000fps w/o leading, again proper fit is king. I've had gc removed from several of my handgun molds, not worth the cost & hassle.

 

[rwsmith]

They are not wasted....

You just have to load correctly for each type of bullet. What kind of shooting are you doing and what kind of velocities do you expect. You can slug your barrel and measure your bore, but I'd just try a few appropriately loaded rounds and see how the leading, or lack of it goes. I use Missouri and Penn bullets in my 686 and have no problems. If you have a special case in barrel diameter, you can have the bullets 'sized' to what you need, or you can do it yourself with proper sizing equipment. Some manufacturers offer several different diameters on the same bullet because this is a problem that people have and there are workable solutions. Anyway, most likely you will be able to use them even if you have to make some adjustments. And once you get into production, you'll run through those bullets in now time.

 

[lestuder3]

Thanks for all the responses. Again I am new to this, so this question may seem silly, but what is leading?

 

[Forrest r]

Thanks for all the responses. Again I am knew to this, so this question may seem silly, but what is leading?

Actually that's a very good question!!!!

Allot of people that shoot lead bullets mistake atimonial wash for leading. Decades ago they started using antimony to harden lead, hence lyman #2 alloy. Antimony is cheaper than tin (lyman #1 alloy was lead/tin). Antimony will leave grey streaks down the length of the bbl, it's called antimonial wash. It hurts nothing, doesn't affect accuracy and is easily removed with a brush.

True leading on the other had is allot harder to get out, but it also tells the user/shooter what's going on with their bullet/bbl/alloy/lube/load combo.

Leading in the 1st" of bbl ='s wrong diameter bullet/too small or too hard of a bullet for the light load being used/no bullet expansion/obturation.

Leading the length of the bbl ='s too soft of an alloy

Leading the last inch of bbl ='s no lube/poor lube/bullet ran out of lube.

A chronograph will easily pick up on what's the best alloy for the load being used/tested/shot.

An interesting link about lead bullets.

Cast bullet alloy's and bullet obturation

I hate to say it but the last time I encountered any leading in a bbl was several years ago with commercial ammo, 22lr ammo of all things. I have a beater k-22 (4-screw) that's had untold #'s of rounds down the tube. Never had a problem before with this pistol and at least 10+ different kinds/brands of ammo. The pistol went from hitting steal @25yds to missing barn doors @ 10 paces in less then 24 shots. I looked down the bbl and shoot my head. This is what came out of the bbl, pushed it out with a rod and a tight patch.



The only other time I've ever experienced leading was when I used super hard bullets in extremely lite loads.

I'm sure other lead bullet users will chime in.

 

[beerbelly]

That "Thunderturd" ammo looks like it came from Dunham`s (called the Jock Strap store around here) a few years back. They had bricks on sale all the time cheap! I still have quite a bit left.
beerbelly

 

[LoboGunLeather]

I have been casting and shooting cast bullets since 1972 in pistols, revolvers, and rifles. Tens of thousands of rounds at targets and game animals large and small. This is one of the most interesting areas of the shooting sports.

There really are no absolute rules that apply. Every firearm is different, even identical models from the same production run will vary due to manufacturing tolerances and tool wear. Use and maintenance of the gun will bring further differences over time. Type of rifling and other factors can make a difference.

Cast bullet design, mold types, and variations in the molds add more variables. The specific alloy used for casting introduces further variables. Temperatures of metal and mold can make a difference.

What works perfectly well in one gun may not be satisfactory in another, even one of the same type and model.

There are some general guidelines that can help you arrive at satisfactory results more quickly:

1. Bullet diameter. The bullet must fit the bore and groove diameters. As cast diameter should be at or slightly over groove diameter (hence the .001" over advice).

2. Alloy hardness. Generally speaking, selection of a particular alloy will depend on the intended uses. Softer alloys can perform very well at modest pressures and velocities. Harder alloys can extend the performance potential by withstanding higher pressures and velocities.

3. Load selection. Type of powder, burning rate, peak pressures and pressure curves (how rapidly peak pressure is reached) will all make a difference. Relatively light charges of faster burning powders tend to reach peak pressures more rapidly, thus applying force more quickly to the bullet under acceleration. Relatively heavy charges of slower burning powders may have higher peak pressures but reach those pressures more gradually. Each variation will produce different results, especially with different bullets cast of different hardness.

4. Lubrication. Cast lead bullets require lubricant to be able to move through the rifled bore without excessive friction. Friction is required for the rifling to grip the bullet and impart the spin necessary for stable flight. Some lubricants may work well at lower pressures and temperatures, but fail at higher levels. Some may work well at higher temperatures and pressures, but prove inadequate at lower levels.

Without writing a chapter for a book here the best I can suggest is that you locate a copy of the Lyman Cast Bullet manual and study it thoroughly. If you can find a copy of "Cast Bullets" (NRA publication, a compendium of over 30 years experimentation by Col. E. H. Harrison) you will receive the equivalent of an advanced degree on the subject.

When you have decided what you want cast bullets to do for you these sources will allow you to make good selections (powders, primers, load data, and loading technique) to achieve your goals more quickly and easily.

Best regards.

 

[m657]

OP:

circa 1980 I was new to shooting sports & new to reloading.

The confusing demands of IHMSA 200 yard big bore handgun ballistics took considerable time to figure out how the nasty full-length bore fouling of both lead and FMJ loads were trying to teach me something.

Summarized, the sentiments above are most excellent information. In a nutshell, I came to regard cast lead in my pistols above 1250fps potential trouble re leading, and above 1500 fps with FMJ capable of nastiness as well.

Exception to this even on the low-moderate cast lead recipes of Cowboy Action Shooting, several times I somehow managed to develop severe leading even then, but in general 98% of the time using such recipes had absolutely no issues.

Not intended as a comprehensive nor particular claim to 'last word', it simply is my own rough working guidelines on load development. The reloading hobby is a marvelous opportunity to study the Ballistic Art & Science.

As you gain experience with 'normal' loads and confidence with 'standard' recipes, you will find mostly the extreme stuff is what produces most of the headaches of such as 'barrel leading'.

The simple guidelines noted above, about cast lead hardness & sizing is most valuable.

 

[SMSgt]

Outstanding post, Lobo!

 

[fredj338]

Thanks for all the responses. Again I am knew to this, so this question may seem silly, but what is leading?

Every bullet fired down a bore leaves some residue. Lead, coated, plated, jacketed, they all leave fouling of some kind. Leading is just one & in some ways, easier to clean than hard copper fouling. If you run a solvent coated bore brush, followed by a patch & you get little flecks of lead, you've got significant leading. It's easily removed by a slightly undersized brush wrapped in ChorBoy copper wool, a little Kroil speeds things up.

 

[lestuder3]

Thank you all for the excellent comments. I now have a better understanding of what I am doing and I will definitely try to locate the Lyman book. Hopefully the components I have already purchased will work well together and I can get some decent rounds loaded. Again thank you all for your advise and comments. I'm sure I will gave more questions as I embark on this new journey.

 

[rwsmith]

Coated bullets....

If jacketed are too expensive, which if you are anything like me they are, I find coated bullets to be the best thing to come down the pike in a long while. I've never liked plated and about the only advantage I see to them over cast is that they are cleaner to handle. Many of the casting outfits now offer the Hi Tek or some similar coating now. Or you can coat them yourself. The regular waxy lube the they put in the 'lube groove' of cast bullets can be pretty smoky and/or stinky. Not a huge problem for me unless I shoot indoors and cause dissension in the stalls because the ventilation is not ideal at my range. ("Man, what's he shooting, black powder?")

PS: If the cast bullet is too big, it will raise pressures in the chamber/barrel and if it's too small, gas cutting from the hot gas passing between bullet and barrel will cause leading.

 

[lestuder3]

I am going to take the advise of fredj338 and load some jacketed bullets first. After I am comfortable loading them I will give cast bullets a try. Is there a good source online for purchasing bullets? I live in a small town and the local gun shop is kinda pricey, so I was hoping to find something online.

 

[AtomHeartMother]

I haven't tried these yet but I plan to....best price I've seen for jacketed.
Rocky Mountain Reloading - 9mm Bullets

 

[fredj338]

I am going to take the advise of fredj338 and load some jacketed bullets first. After I am comfortable loading them I will give cast bullets a try. Is there a good source online for purchasing bullets? I live in a small town and the local gun shop is kinda pricey, so I was hoping to find something online.

Cheaper jacketed, buy in bulk, there is a learning curve with lead & even plated, to get the same results as jacketed.
Precision delta
Rose distributors

 

[M E Morrison]

Actually that's a very good question!!!!

Allot of people that shoot lead bullets mistake atimonial wash for leading. Decades ago they started using antimony to harden lead, hence lyman #2 alloy. Antimony is cheaper than tin (lyman #1 alloy was lead/tin). Antimony will leave grey streaks down the length of the bbl, it's called antimonial wash. It hurts nothing, doesn't affect accuracy and is easily removed with a brush.

True leading on the other had is allot harder to get out, but it also tells the user/shooter what's going on with their bullet/bbl/alloy/lube/load combo.

Leading in the 1st" of bbl ='s wrong diameter bullet/too small or too hard of a bullet for the light load being used/no bullet expansion/obturation.

Leading the length of the bbl ='s too soft of an alloy

Leading the last inch of bbl ='s no lube/poor lube/bullet ran out of lube.

A chronograph will easily pick up on what's the best alloy for the load being used/tested/shot.

An interesting link about lead bullets.

Cast bullet alloy's and bullet obturation

I hate to say it but the last time I encountered any leading in a bbl was several years ago with commercial ammo, 22lr ammo of all things. I have a beater k-22 (4-screw) that's had untold #'s of rounds down the tube. Never had a problem before with this pistol and at least 10+ different kinds/brands of ammo. The pistol went from hitting steal @25yds to missing barn doors @ 10 paces in less then 24 shots. I looked down the bbl and shoot my head. This is what came out of the bbl, pushed it out with a rod and a tight patch.



The only other time I've ever experienced leading was when I used super hard bullets in extremely lite loads.

I'm sure other lead bullet users will chime in.

That looks like what I got out of my TC Contender pistol, but it took several hundred rounds to get there - difference between a revolver & a single shot, I guess.

At any rate, the "stuff" felt like wax, not lead, as it was very light. What did your fouling turn out to be?

 

[Big Stick]

I am going to take the advise of fredj338 and load some jacketed bullets first. After I am comfortable loading them I will give cast bullets a try. Is there a good source online for purchasing bullets? I live in a small town and the local gun shop is kinda pricey, so I was hoping to find something online.

Look at Berry Bullets. Its a decent plated bullet, good for 1250 fps. Cabelas sometimes has them cheaper than the Berry website.