Cavalry Draw

[jimmyj]

Hi:
In another post a U.S. Issue left hand holster for the Model 1911 .45acp pistol was mentioned.
In attempting to locate more information on this holster, I found information concerning the "Cavalry Draw" in which the handgun is worn on the right side butt forward. This article stated that this draw was as fast if not faster than the right side butt rearward draw (especially when seated0 ? Also it stated that the FBI used this "Cavalry Draw" when short .38 Revolvers were issued ?

 

[jarhead1178]

I always carry my shield 9 iwb 1 oc as I am 80 and not too worried about my junk. In cavalry carry when you draw you have to sweep the muzzle across your midsection, rather not do that.

 

[THE PILGRIM]

Did they show a pic of the lefthand 1911 holster? All the Gov issue 1911 holsters I ever saw or pictured were RH. I have seen LH draw US marked holsters apparently made for the 38 revolver. They 'angled' when belted, apparently designed for cross- draw.

 

[Alpo]

The percussion revolver holsters were worn butt-forward on the right side. Not a "left handed" holster. Butt forward on the right side.

When the Army went to cartridge revolvers, it was the same way.

The Colt DA 38, that was not powerful enough to put down doped up Moros, was worn butt forward on the right side.

The 1917 - I've seen holsters with both orientation. Butt forward or butt rear. But both were for the right side.

But all 1911 holsters, that I'm aware of, up until the Bianchi MP holster in the 60s, are butt-rear, right hand. The MP holster was ambidextrous, and worn cross-draw. The flap was on a pivot, and you pushed it up and out of the way when drawing.
http://cdn2.armslist.com/sites/arms...511713_01_1911a1_ambidextrous_holster_640.jpg

 

[poordevil]

The holsters issued during WWI for the 2 1917 revolvers were right side, butt forward. During WWII when the 1917 revolvers were issued again, old stock WWI butt forward and new made right side butt rearward were used.

 

[Mike Grasso]

Actually, as discussed, the Cavalry draw is being taken out of context.

You have to remember that the pistol was worn on the right hip, butt forward so that the LEFT hand could draw it.

The right hand was used to draw the SABER on the left side....

It then became tradition to wear it, when the Saber was no longer used, butt forward RIGHT and a twisting wrist motion made the draw work, the muzzle doesn't cover your mid section (unless you do it incorrectly).

As for the FBI and other Agencies adapting it, we all did. It's called a crossdraw and works extremely well when seated in a surveillance. But as you may of surmised it's worn "cross" from your primary side.

Mike

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

I have or have had several 1911 holsters at least 2 were LH and were given to my left handed son. One of my friends still has a brown LH 1911 Sears (NOT Sears and Roebuck) holster he drew from stores in Viet Nam and polished it brown. He had El Paso make him a Sam Brown rig with a RH Cavalry swivel with USMC in the oval, after 9 months with no word he call to get an update. They only had one Marine buckle and weren't sure he would like it, but brown color Sam Brown rig looks good with a General Officers buckle! (he never made it above O-5). Not bad for a guy that started out humping a PR-35 in the jungle. Ivan

 

[THE PILGRIM]

I have or have had several 1911 holsters at least 2 were LH and were given to my left handed son. One of my friends still has a brown LH 1911 Sears (NOT Sears and Roebuck) holster he drew from stores in Viet Nam and polished it brown. He had El Paso make him a Sam Brown rig with a RH Cavalry swivel with USMC in the oval, after 9 months with no word he call to get an update. They only had one Marine buckle and weren't sure he would like it, but brown color Sam Brown rig looks good with a General Officers buckle! (he never made it above O-5). Not bad for a guy that started out humping a PR-35 in the jungle. Ivan

Does the Sears 1911 holster have appropriate markings and fed stock number same as the RH holsters?

 

[GerSan69]

I believe the cavalry draw is used also for those small-of-the-back holsters.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

I believe the Sears holsters are/were left over from WWII. I have 2 RH's in my holster box. One says "Sears" over "1943" and is brown,
and the other says "SearS 44" and is black. I don't remember what date is on my friends. He drew it from stores in 1966 or 67. Ivan

 

[Bryce A Baker]

Reverse draw

I compete with a western draw referred to as the reverse or cavalry draw. It seems my authentic western fast draw technique has been compared to the cavalry draw but to me is only similar because of the gun position. Point two is my draw does not cross my torso with the barrel. Point three the gun is not cocked until clear of my body or if I use a single fan with my left hand. I try to be as authentic western as I can with safety as a priority.

 

[the ringo kid]

I always carry my shield 9 iwb 1 oc as I am 80 and not too worried about my junk. In cavalry carry when you draw you have to sweep the muzzle across your midsection, rather not do that.

That's why I find it amazing that neither Wild Bill Hickok nor Wild Bill Elliott, ever shot themselves, at least its never been mentioned. Both wore theirs butt-forward.

 

[the ringo kid]

I compete with a western draw referred to as the reverse or cavalry draw. It seems my authentic western fast draw technique has been compared to the cavalry draw but to me is only similar because of the gun position. Point two is my draw does not cross my torso with the barrel. Point three the gun is not cocked until clear of my body or if I use a single fan with my left hand. I try to be as authentic western as I can with safety as a priority.

Reverse Cavalry Draw is how I heard it was called too. It apparently worked well for Wild Bills--Hickok and Elliott.

 

[THE PILGRIM]

Still having a problem with the LH 1911 holster. Our last Cavalry holster was the 1912.
Here's trooper demo-ing one. He looks to be out West, standing up hill from some large buildings, maybe at Ft. Bliss or Ft. Huachuca.
He's wearing the standard breeches, high top shoes and leggings.
And pointing an unlocked 1911.

 

[jimmyj]

That's why I find it amazing that neither Wild Bill Hickok nor Wild Bill Elliott, ever shot themselves, at least its never been mentioned. Both wore theirs butt-forward.

Also "Rex Allen" the "Arizona Cowboy" (in the days of singing cowboy movies)

 

[Alpo]

Still having a problem with the LH 1911 holster. Our last Cavalry holster was the 1912.
Here's trooper demo-ing one. He looks to be out West, standing up hill from some large buildings, maybe at Ft. Bliss or Ft. Huachuca.
He's wearing the standard breeches, high top shoes and leggings.
And pointing an unlocked 1911.

Of course it's unlocked. The hammer's down.

 

[Bryce A Baker]

I compete with a western draw referred to as the reverse or cavalry draw. It seems my authentic western fast draw technique has been compared to the cavalry draw but to me is only similar because of the gun position. Point two is my draw does not cross my torso with the barrel. Point three the gun is not cocked until clear of my body or if I use a single fan with my left hand. I try to be as authentic western as I can with safety as a priority.

John William Harden, Wild Bill Hickok and Doc Holiday were some of the fastest and most accurate. I trust their skill.

 

[Texas Star]

John William Harden, Wild Bill Hickok and Doc Holiday were some of the fastest and most accurate. I trust their skill.

I think you mean John Wesley Hardin. Not sure of the spelling of his last name. I'll check. And I think Doc Holliday spelled his name with two "l'"s. But I've never seen photos or books saying that they used a cavalry draw. Hardin sometimes favored shoulder holsters. I believe that he was wearing a S&W revolver that way when shot down.

If you want to see a cavalry or reverse draw well done, get the DVD to, "The Night of the Generals", a movie based on Hans Helmut Kirst's book of that name.

In one scene, Peter O'Toole, playing a Nazi SS general, draws his PPK that way and shoots the intelligence officer who has come to arrest him for several murders. (The man was played by Omar Sherif, also O'Toole's co-star in the magnificent, " Lawrence of Arabia", where Sherif played Prince Ali.)

I think this case where the general used that draw for his little Walther is the sole instance where I've seen that draw used on film. Has anyone else here seen that, and where?

Speaking of the PPK in movies, did you see, "Valkerie", where Tom Cruise, playing a one-armed colonel, cocked his PPK by shoving the rear sight down hard on a desk? Also in that film, look for the attack by strafing RAF Kittyhawk (P-40) fighters in North Africa, which cost that officer an arm. Cruise is a buff of WW II fighters and flies his own P-51 Mustang. He is said to have insisted on those P-40's for authenticity. They are certainly among the types of plane most likely to have done that sort of attack on German convoys.

 

[the ringo kid]

I think you mean John Wesley Hardin. Not sure of the spelling of his last name. I'll check. And I think Doc Holliday spelled his name with two "l'"s. But I've never seen photos or books saying that they used a cavalry draw. Hardin sometimes favored shoulder holsters. I believe that he was wearing a S&W revolver that way when shot down.

If you want to see a cavalry or reverse draw well done, get the DVD to, "The Night of the Generals", a movie based on Hans Helmut Kirst's book of that name.

In one scene, Peter O'Toole, playing a Nazi SS general, draws his PPK that way and shoots the intelligence officer who has come to arrest him for several murders. (The man was played by Omar Sherif, also O'Toole's co-star in the magnificent, " Lawrence of Arabia", where Sherif played Prince Ali.)

I think this case where the general used that draw for his little Walther is the sole instance where I've seen that draw used on film. Has anyone else here seen that, and where?

I have that movie but havent watched it in ages. Ill have to do so. also,ive seen that draw used in a few old oaters,but cant recall which ones?

 

[Texas Star]

Still having a problem with the LH 1911 holster. Our last Cavalry holster was the 1912.
Here's trooper demo-ing one. He looks to be out West, standing up hill from some large buildings, maybe at Ft. Bliss or Ft. Huachuca.
He's wearing the standard breeches, high top shoes and leggings.
And pointing an unlocked 1911.

I think you may mean "uncocked." Did we miss our morning coffee?

I noted that the magazine in this .45 had the lanyard loop. Can you imagine trying to keep up with a lanyard on the gun, and maybe two more lanyards attached to magazines, flying around and getting the way of the horse's reins in battle?

This trooper looks like he could have been with Pershing on his drive into Mexico after Pancho Villa. Thanks for the fine photo.