CCW Ammo

[b79holmes]

I have seen many discussions on self defense ammo and have hydra-shocks in my 9mm magazines in the safe.

On the subject of mixing a HP's & something else I have seem comments that it is common but never a discussion on the jacketed or solid ammo. I am thinking of doing this with my J frame. I'd not think the Remington UMC practice ammo would be a good choice but then again...I don't know.

Bill

 

[b79holmes]

I have seen many discussions on self defense ammo and have hydra-shocks in my 9mm magazines in the safe.

On the subject of mixing a HP's & something else I have seem comments that it is common but never a discussion on the jacketed or solid ammo. I am thinking of doing this with my J frame. I'd not think the Remington UMC practice ammo would be a good choice but then again...I don't know.

Bill

 

[Spotteddog]

I wouldn't have any trouble with either a broad meplat SWC or a full wad cutter as long as the full wad was above target load velocity.
There are loads that give you a very slight advantage over them, but not by as much as some folks think IMHO?

 

[38-44HD45]

Why?

 

[safearm]

In my opinion, there is no need to mix HP and FMJ in any self-defense handgun. If the HPs work, go with the best you have/can afford. If HPs won't work (primarily semi-autos), then find something like PowrBall or send your gun to a gunsmith so it will reliably cycle HPs.
The argument that your ammunition may have to penetrate a barrier is not valid for CCW; your job is not to engage the bad guy, it is to escape the bad guy. You use your self-defense weapon to force the bad guy to cease his/her attack, or to open the opportunity for you to escape the danger zone.
For military, and some LE, situations, there is a need for a round that can penetrate barriers and still inflict lethal damage to a target, however, most LE Tactical Units don't mix ammo, they carry magazines loaded with different ammo appropriate to the task (usually different color magazines/markings).
The only time I carried mixed ammo in the military was two tracer rounds loaded as the first rounds in a 30 round M4 magazine; this way I was visually reminded when I was out of ammo.

 

[38-44HD45]

Safearm is correct. Given that most folks who wind up in a defensive shooting event don't know if they've shot one round or six, much less two versus three, how likely is it that you'll know what variety is up next? In handgun ammo, the best JHPs penetrate at least adequately, and in a lot of handgun ammo, ball has a genuine likelihood of overpenetration. Keep it simple.

 

[flop-shank]

What caliber? Even in a .32 I would pick a good hollow point and run with it.

 

[Robert B]

I feel safe if my ammo can penetrate at least 12 inches. Anything less than a 357 snubbie will probably not penetrate adequately with a jhp. So, if you carry a 380, then go with fmj. Otherwise you will be repeating the failure of the Miami shootout. Nice expansion with no vitals hit. You die.

 

[flop-shank]

Caliber is only part of the equation. Bullet design is another. I've tested three JHP loads in .380 that penetrate more than 12" in Perma-Gel.

 

[Goodtime Charlie]

Originally posted by flop-shank:
Caliber is only part of the equation. Bullet design is another. I've tested three JHP loads in .380 that penetrate more than 12" in Perma-Gel.

flopshank:

Care to share the names of the ammo with us? Please?

 

[GatorFarmer]

What is your goal for the ammo that you carry?

I'm not a proponent of the "break contact" theory. If you have to fire your weapon, you fire to stop/end whatever problem necessitating firing. High tailing it from a still active problem can be a good way to either get killed or get someone else killed.

If you want to shoot through barriers, use a good bonded JHP meant for LE use for your 9mm. For your J frame, carry a speedloader of something like Fiochi 158gr FMJ. The UMC FMJs deliver somewhat underwhelming penetration through objects, but then so do many .38 snub rounds.

 

[Hook686]

Everybody has opinion, not one knows reality.

Personally I load mixed rounds in both my .357 magnum and .44 magnum revolvers. I do not see any negative for doing such. At self defense distances, Point of Impact (POI) Vs Point of Aim (POA) is within my shooting ability during rapid fire, with any of the loads I insert in my revolvers.

Personal opinion is that if the threat is a 350 pound bad guy I'd rather have the Hard Cast (see the shooting of Trooper Mark Coates who shot a fat threat with 6 125 grain .357 magnums, only to be shot with 1 .25 caliber. The Trooper died, the BG survived).

I think my personal rationalization is as vaid as anyone elese's rationalizations, and it works for me. My purpose is to stop an unkown threat to my life and being unknown I simply feel more comfortable having a mix of ammunition in my revolver.

 

[Hook686]

Originally posted by Robert B:
I feel safe if my ammo can penetrate at least 12 inches. Anything less than a 357 snubbie will probably not penetrate adequately with a jhp. So, if you carry a 380, then go with fmj. Otherwise you will be repeating the failure of the Miami shootout. Nice expansion with no vitals hit. You die.

maybe ....

http://stevespages.com/page8f380acp.html

 

[flop-shank]

Originally posted by Hook686:
(see the shooting of Trooper Mark Coates who shot a fat threat with 6 125 grain .357 magnums, only to be shot with 1 .25 caliber. The Trooper died, the BG survived).

Six 145 gr. Silver Tips vs. .22lr. from a NAA mini as I recall. Obviously that in no way changes the point that you were making.

 

[flop-shank]

Originally posted by Goodtime Charlie:

Originally posted by flop-shank:
Caliber is only part of the equation. Bullet design is another. I've tested three JHP loads in .380 that penetrate more than 12" in Perma-Gel.

flopshank:

Care to share the names of the ammo with us? Please?

Fiocci Extrema, Speer Gold Dot and Hornady Personal defense. The test results are in the Perma-Gel Test Results thread I started in the ammunition forum.

 

[Goodtime Charlie]

Originally posted by flop-shank:

Originally posted by Goodtime Charlie:

Originally posted by flop-shank:
Caliber is only part of the equation. Bullet design is another. I've tested three JHP loads in .380 that penetrate more than 12" in Perma-Gel.

flopshank:

Care to share the names of the ammo with us? Please?

Fiocci Extrema, Speer Gold Dot and Hornady Personal defense. The test results are in the Perma-Gel Test Results thread I started in the ammunition forum.

Thanks flopshank!

 

[b79holmes]

Originally posted by Robert B:
I feel safe if my ammo can penetrate at least 12 inches. Anything less than a 357 snubbie will probably not penetrate adequately with a jhp. So, if you carry a 380, then go with fmj. Otherwise you will be repeating the failure of the Miami shootout. Nice expansion with no vitals hit. You die.

I have a .38 642CT. Shooting through a barrier or car never crossed my mind.

Originally posted by GatorFarmer:
What is your goal for the ammo that you carry?

SNIP...

If you want to shoot through barriers, use a good bonded JHP meant for LE use for your 9mm. For your J frame, carry a speedloader of something like Fiochi 158gr FMJ. The UMC FMJs deliver somewhat underwhelming penetration through objects, but then so do many .38 snub rounds.

I will take a look at flop-shank's ammo page.

I was thinking more towards is a .38 JHP self defense round always the best choice?

I would hope I could out run your average 350lb bad guy, but are their legit cases where more penetration is needed?

Thanks,
Bill

 

[flop-shank]

Mr. Holmes, I would look toward ammo that posts 12"-14" penetration, but a little less or more is OK if you don't know of a better choice. www.stoppingpower.net has some great info in the test bed section. Just do a search. The main thing is that your gun is 100% reliable and then accurate with the ammo.