changes to factory box

[444 Magnum]

When did this box change from solid to dashed on the outline? Did it happen simultaneously factory wide or vary based on model? I'm specifically looking at the model 60 and model 19.

Additionally, I have a 19-1. What is the correct box for it? I thought it was the top box but Bangor Punta didn't acquire S&W until 1965. Is it this style w/o the Bangor Punta line?

Thanks.

 

[PeteC]

Blue 2-Piece Bangor Punta Box with a solid border.
Blue 2-Piece Bangor Punta Box with a dotted (or dashed border).

The one in your first pic came after the 2-Piece S&W Box with a solid border, sometime after Bangor Punta acquired S&W in 1965.

The one in the second pic is a later version, sometime after the first one, by 1968.

There are other versions, with different font used on the Bangor Punta name and different ways of saying "Bangor Punta" like "of" Bangor Punta, and "a" Bangor Punta Company. See pics 1 and 2 below. Not to mention misprints, like the 3rd and 4th pic. S&W did not throw much away in those days.

The switch was made as the old boxes were used up, so some box sizes did not look like the 2nd type until 1971-ish.

In general, the solid border came before the dashed border. In general, "Bangor Punta" was added as the middle line after 1965.

 

[444 Magnum]

The one in your first pic came after the 2-Piece S&W Box with a solid border,

Is the 2-piece blue S&W Box with a solid border (w/o the Bangor Punta) correct for the 19-1 in 1959-1960?

 

[handejector]

Is the 2-piece blue S&W Box with a solid border (w/o the Bangor Punta) correct for the 19-1 in 1959-1960?

Yes.
I moved your thread because you'll always get more data about boxes in the gun forum that is correct for the box being discussed.

 

[gmborkovic]

When, month and year, did Bangor Punta take control of S&W?

 

[RKmesa]

... I have a 19-1. What is the correct box for it?

Here are some photos of my 12/17/1962 19-1 with its original box...











Hope that this helps!

 

[two-bit cowboy]

When, month and year, did Bangor Punta take control of S&W?

1965, according to Dr. Jinks. I've never seen a month written.

 

[dant]

good info above as to the solid and herring bone patterns, basically mid 60's and I recall my work with Mr Dan Wesson in the mid 70's, and he had said to me late 1965 that the family sold out to Bangor Punta and it was finalized I guess early 1966? I never had any reason to write that down, we were busy building his "new" line of Dan Wessons at the old school house in Monson,Mass.....so I always used the 1966 as reference for the "third line" in the address and mainly the solid trim was on the "two line" address boxes...yes obviously there is a 'transition'........at this same time I was at the S&W factory with Fran Longtin in the service department across the street, and remarked as to ALL the boxes they had laying around older maroon ones and sunburst and solid lines and on and on.....darn wished I had made notes or took pictures,,,ha ha again,we were busy working.........

 

[PeteC]

When, month and year, did Bangor Punta take control of S&W?

Technically, it was 1964~1984, but corporate acquisitions are tricky.
Smith & Wesson - The Bangor Punta Years

Bangor Punta's acquisition of Piper Aircraft took many (7~8) years and several court cases to complete, ending at the US Supreme Court. Despite the terrible PR resulting from court battles, lawyers, etc, it was actually a fine company at its core, and Piper became close to half its business for a while.

My father once used a quote about lawyers from Shakespeare/Henry VI while referring to their legal division. This constituted an expression of great emotion on his part,

About Feb 24 1984, the company was acquired by Lear Siegler, a big fish swallowed by a bigger one. By that definition S&W was down to corporate minnow size at the time.

I have not seen a Lear Siegler box except pics, but apparently there are a few out there, marked LSI, Smith&Wesson, a Lear Siegler Company.

In about 1986~87, S&W was sold off to Tompkins PLC, just as the 3rd gen Semi-auto was about to be introduced (oops).

A more interesting question would be, when did the first Bangor Punta boxes ship and with which model(s)???

 

[dant]

the Lear Siegler boxes we had were the newer, fold up one piece ones, the first ones were Bangor Punta, then Lear Siegler and then NO 'added name' just plain........I had gotten mine from Cherry Corners here in Ohio when BUd Brown was doing warranty work for the factory, they were 'flat, and never folded up,,,,,,I would have to dig out whats still here to take a picture, even the white insert was flat, and not folded up then the black -plastic "high hats" were in a plastic bag and back in the old days setting up at the OGCA, I had them all.....they didn't call me the "king of cardboard" for nothing...I started in boxes in the late 60s at the Chagrin Falls armory digging them out of the trash barrels during the gun shows there ......loooong before it was 'fashionable or chic' to have the boxes....REAL ones, not the fake repops, like on ebay today....

 

[JSR III]

Slightly off topic but may help. I collect parts lists and without digging out my 3 ring binder, IIRC, Bangor Punta also went through many logo changes during their S&W ownership.

Therefore the different BP logos used on the boxes may help to narrow down dates. The problem with S&W was that they were not known for throwing things away however not sure if this practice continued after leaving family control. I'm only guessing that a logo change may not have been enough of a reason to throw older boxes still unused away, even after BP took over.

If you study the photos shown above you can also see that Bangor Punta was in cursive on one example and block printed on another. On one the logo is after the words and in another it is before. Perhaps a study of these changes could help identify time frames for the given boxes.

I remember that changes of the S&W logo required filings with the state or the feds so maybe the same holds true for the BP logos which would help to assign dates as well.