Cheap Browning HPs

Jessie

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I noticed a basket full of high powers for sale in the mid $400s.
They claim Belgian made and look as if the were finished with a grinder. Very rough.
Does anyone know of these? Are they reliable and accurate, just ugly?
I'm thinking a mil surplus find from an African country or something. Finish can be dealt with, not reliability though.
 
I noticed a basket full of high powers for sale in the mid $400s.
They claim Belgian made and look as if the were finished with a grinder. Very rough.
Does anyone know of these? Are they reliable and accurate, just ugly?
I'm thinking a mil surplus find from an African country or something. Finish can be dealt with, not reliability though.

The little I know...

The Browning Hi-Power is the last design of John Moses Browning. The patents on the 1911 were still inforce, so JMB had to design the Hi-Power from the ground up. I've heard that he said he "fixed" the shortcomings of the 1911 in the Hi-Power design. He died before the pistol was completed. FN completed the design and released it.

The Browning Hi-Power serves as a military issue sidearm to this day. Lots of different countries had licenses to manufacture the Hi-Power. As to which variant is better than the other I do not know.

The South African is a FEG Clone. There is a good thread about it here:

FEG Clone vs Browning Hi Power - Page 2
 
No idea where you saw them, so can't comment. But if they're rough, maybe due to refinishing in a Third World country, you'd be better off to look for an Argentine-licensed one or maybe the Hungarian copy. Or a Taurus. Even genuine used Beretta 9mms can be had for maybe $425-450.

My son carried a MK III Browning HP as a security contractor in Iraq. I've got photos of it and asked him about it. The finish was a normal gray military sort, but no tool marks, roughness, etc. It had the usual FN markings, but not, of course, any referring to North American sales.

It was totally reliable, and proved very effective, even with NATO hardball ammo. And it was not gelatin blocks that he was shooting with it... He says that if you hit right, a hardball 9mm will generally suffice, although one enemy he shot at maybe 15 feet took about a minute to die. But he was scrabbling around on the floor in agony and offered no further hostility. That fellow had just been shooting at US troops with a Dragonov (sp?) sniper rifle. He was shot with a Beretta M-9, but the Browning shoots the same ammo at the same velocity. A hit with either pistol is the same as if with the other, and he used both. Usually, his targets dropped at once and were heard from no more. In some cases, he remained under heavy fire and was unable to check fallen enemy, but they did always drop and didn't move before he left a few minutes later. He is a skilled shooter and very familiar with handguns, something that can't be said of most soldiers. I think that most failures to stop with 9mm are a matter of poor bullet placement.

I mention this partly because some Brownings won't feed JHP ammo. But even if you're stuck with hardball, it usually works, if you can put it in the right place.

This was confirmed for me by the late David W. Arnold, a senior police official in charge of anti-terrorist ops in then- Rhodesia. He saw many after action reports where 9mm pistols and SMG's were used.

That said, my son (and I) now load 9mm's with Gold Dot or Federal's HST ammo. I do feel that it gives an added edge in questionable cases. I am aware that Che Guevara said that 9mm hardball was questionable in many shootings, and that he preferred .45 pistols. He was a Commie, but he saw a lot of people being shot.

I personally wouldn't buy a gun like you described. Who knows where they came from and how they were maintained? Rough appearance is rough appearance. It may be more than skin deep.
 
Gunbroker has a bunch listed with cdisales. I purchased one of the older ones they had with the thumbprint on the slide. Finish was much better than the pictures showed. Some look very rough but company was A+
 
Don't take this as gospel, but I recall a large number of Belgian made HPs were sold to Israel in the 1960s and/or 1970s. They were pretty rough in finish to save money on military guns that would see hard use anyway. Seems to me I have seen the Israeli HPs offered in the past. Not sure how to ID them.
 
The FN plant in Belgium was occupied by the Nazis in WW II. The P35's produced in that time were covered in tool marks. I had one that was butt ugly; however, the gun functioned fine and was very accurate.
 
There are a slew of FEG built pistols marked FN. They are described as such by one of the vendors on BrokeGunner. I suspect that it what you are seeing.

FEG also turned out FN marked Walther PP lookalikes which a certain vendor in the US sold trumpeting "Belgian quality". The joke is that FEG actually make some darned good guns. I have an AP-66 in .32 marked Hege (A german company) and it is a great little piece.
 
If the OP is referring to the Hi powers on gun broker from cdisales they are good to go. I have read countless threads on other forums about them. The descriptions are spot on or even under rating the conditions them. If you look through the auctions you can find a nicer finished Mk. III with ambi safety and the better sights for much cheaper than anywhere else. I just returned from my local Cabela's and they had a couple of beat up BHPs for $600.

They have been refinished and are all Israeli Police or IDF trade ins and have proof marks. I was going to pick out a nice looking Mk III for myself, but ended up buying a nice looking FEG PJK-9HP locally to scratch my Hi Power itch for the time being.
 
I have one of the IDF "Browning Hi-Power" pistols in front of me as I type this. It is marked "KAREEN MK II" in one line on the slide and is marked "KSN INDUSTRIES LTD ISRAEL" below. These pistols must have really made the rounds as my example contains no less then 2 importers marks as shown below:

I got my example from JG Sales in Prescott,AZ a couple of years ago and I believe they were blowing them out at $299 at that time. After shooting my example I wanted to buy a couple more but they were all gone.
IMO: These are excellent pistols and it's understandable why they were sold out so quickly. Even the finish on my two tone example is excellent.
Jim

JO ARMS INC. HOUSTON TEXAS (left side of slide)
C.A.I. GEORGIA VT.(right side of slide)
 
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I'll echo the comments made above regarding cdisales. I've purchased two Hi Powers from Gary and the condition of both were better than described or captured in the auction photograph. Each are solid shooters that I do not hesitate carry now and then. Here is a picture of the first one I bought from him (a little under $400 IIRC) with the VZ Grips I added.



If you are patient and check his auctions, he will have some with pretty interesting proof marks. Search for "High Powers" in GB and you'll turn up his auctions.
 
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Not all are equal. I bought an FEG R9 at a gunshow for less than $200 quite awhile ago. P 35 mags fit but internals are different. Trigger pull was at least 20#'s. I was glad to trade it for a 2" 10-5 which I still have. Joe
 
Not all are equal. I bought an FEG R9 at a gunshow for less than $200 quite awhile ago. P 35 mags fit but internals are different. Trigger pull was at least 20#'s. I was glad to trade it for a 2" 10-5 which I still have. Joe
I think those share quite a bit with 59 series S&Ws, despite looking like Hi-Powers. They're an intriguing design, but I wonder where you get parts for them.

The CDI Hi-Powers are good to go. A friend of mine bought a MkII from them a few years back and gave it a Duracoat job. It's a good shooter, and was in excellent mechanical shape even before he cleaned it up. If I wanted another Hi-Power, I'd go that route first.
 
Is Browning still importing new HP's? Been awhile since I saw one.

I'd probably buy a CZ-75B today, as it's stronger and less likely to break with hot loads, not that I use them routinely.

That said, if you don't use very hot ammo a lot, like the SAS did when some of their Brownings broke the slides, I think the gun is pretty durable in normal use with reasonable ammo. I feel comfortable in using it with US-loaded Plus P ammo in occasional practice and for carry.

In sporting terms, I think it's okay for animals to coyote size. A backpacker might want a 9mm, as the ammo is so light and compact for the power. And the Browning is one of the lighter, trimmer steel 9mms.

My own experience is limited to two, both in the 1969-72 time frame. One was flawless. The other seemed to have the extractor fitted too tightly or something and gave some problems. It was the El Capitan version with tangent rear sight. My son has had a couple of more recent ones, a MK II and his MK III. (Not the MK III he was issued in Iraq; that represents a third example.) The latter not only worked, it was very accurate. I mean VERY accurate.
 
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I've ordered one of the Cole's HPs. Cole's reputation among HP aficionados is top-notch. I'm planning on having mine Cerakoted, since park is supposed to make the best undercoat for it.

I've got other HPs, but you can never have too many.
 
I think I was right. Looks like the Star of David and Hebrew stamped near trigger guard.
 
By the time one buys one of these used guns and has it refinished, maybe in Cerakote or another fairly high tech finish or hard chromed, how close will that come to the price of a new gun?

Of course, if you're going to refinish, anyway, starting with a worn gun makes more sense, unless you need to replace worn parts, too.

I wish they'd make the Hi-Power in stainless.
 
Man, I was looking at those and it took all my will power to resist buying one. Had a commercial HP back in the 1980s but sold it. Have absolutely no use for one, or room in the safe. But still hard to walk away.
 
Sorry, been off line for a while.
Yes, these are CDSI pistols.
 
Man, I was looking at those and it took all my will power to resist buying one. Had a commercial HP back in the 1980s but sold it. Have absolutely no use for one, or room in the safe. But still hard to walk away.

Everyone needs at least one Hi Power. It's the perfect platform for 9mm. Sigs, Glocks, FN and the hundreds of other 9s may be better for certain purposes, but for sheer elegance of form and function, a properly-sorted Hi Power is tops in my book.
 
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