Classical Training

[sjs]

There are myriad theories on training, from military to police to commercial tactical classes to the stuff on the internet. One does not have to take too many training courses to see there are many schools of thought and some outright disagreement. I am wondering if this site has a recommended outline for basic concealed carry self defense training.

I don't mean basic shooting skills. I mean something that starts with a very competent handgun shooter who can shoot fairly fast and accurately, is entirely familiar with their weapon, and understands all safety rules. How to advance from competent shooter to competent self defense; from plinker, hunter and target shooter to defender.

What I have in mind is something that involves widely accepted methods and drills on which most experts would agree. Something basic and universally accepted. Sort of an outline that one could follow to ensure they have a productive and efficient day at the range. Something that covers shooting; not all the other defense issues like awareness, judgment, mind set, etc.; just shooting.

Everyone has a different golf swing but there are basics that everyone should start with. I am sure many here have their own routine they have developed over the years. Maybe I am looking for the holy grail and it does not exist but I bet there is a thread here somewhere, but I didn't find it in my searches. Maybe the answer is just the training guys do for IDPA.

 

[Protected One]

There are myriad theories on training, from military to police to commercial tactical classes to the stuff on the internet. One does not have to take too many training courses to see there are many schools of thought and some outright disagreement. I am wondering if this site has a recommended outline for basic concealed carry self defense training.

I don't mean basic shooting skills. I mean something that starts with a very competent handgun shooter who can shoot fairly fast and accurately, is entirely familiar with their weapon, and understands all safety rules. How to advance from competent shooter to competent self defense; from plinker, hunter and target shooter to defender.

What I have in mind is something that involves widely accepted methods and drills on which most experts would agree. Something basic and universally accepted. Sort of an outline that one could follow to ensure they have a productive and efficient day at the range. Something that covers shooting; not all the other defense issues like awareness, judgment, mind set, etc.; just shooting.

Everyone has a different golf swing but there are basics that everyone should start with. I am sure many here have their own routine they have developed over the years. Maybe I am looking for the holy grail and it does not exist but I bet there is a thread here somewhere, but I didn't find it in my searches. Maybe the answer is just the training guys do for IDPA.

I doubt you will find that "this site has a recommended outline for basic concealed carry self defense training", because the site is not about constructing training courses or programs. What you WILL find is a lot of people (some knowledgeable and others with opinions) who are willing to share their beliefs with you on the subject.

From my viewpoint any self-defense training should be geared toward the most likely situations the trainee could face, and branch out if desired and financial resources allow. For example, if you live in a sizeable city and rarely venture outside of it your needs will be different than those of a person living in a rural area.

For starters, I would recommend the following classes:
*Basic handgun class
*Advanced handgun class (this will include clearing failures, drawing from concealment, using cover and concealment, shooting on the move, and shooting from different positions).
*Defensive Pistol course (use of a pistol in close quarters, retention skills, etc.)
*Anti car-jacking (How to shoot in and around a vehicle)
*Active Shooter Training
These assume you are in reasonable health to undertake certain classes.
Hope this helps!

 

[OKFC05]

The closest I know of are the NRA Personal Defense series (inside and outside the home) which has a section on the laws of the state where taken. Some states require the NRA courses as part of their Carry license laws.
However, each state has its own requirements and laws, and different established courses that it recognizes, and some states only recognize their own course.
Some states do not teach anything about shooting techniques, only their applicable laws.
When people come to me with this question in Oklahoma, I recommend NRA Basic Pistol, then the OK CLEET course on laws, then the NRA Personal Protection Courses.
For those in good health who want more, I send them to Tulsa TDSA for their combat pistol courses I and II. These courses are attended by shooters from all over the country, including LE and SWAT, and are a real bargain compared to the "Famous Personality" $1000 courses.

 

[Big Cholla]

Thunder Ranch has an excellent concealed carry self defense class. And, if it not in the possibility for you to attend, most of the training from that class in available in a video. My personal advise is for you to take several concealed carry specific classes and to take from each just what works for you and your everyday situation. .........

 

[YogiBear]

Practice

Aloha,

As I have said before,

PRACTICE, PRACTICE and MORE PRACTICE

until shooting and gun handling can be done in your sleep without thinking.

Strive for Accuracy under all conditions.

 

[Wise_A]

Here's what I'd outline, in the order I'd tackle it:

Basic Handgun Marksmanship and Safety If you've never had any formal shooting education, it's not an embarrassing thing to start with. Most people I offer pointers to, it's very rarely anything beyond handgun fundamentals--grip, trigger control, sight picture, mostly. And the results I've seen after 10 or 15 minutes have been absurd (one guy went from "can't hit the paper at 5 yards" to "4-inch group at 7" in 5 minutes). If you seek someone out to help you, I would look for a Bullseye shooter. The entire sport of Bullseye, from tyro to High Expert, is "fundamentals".

Legality Mas Ayoob has this market cornered, methinks. Check out On Deadly Force: Understanding Your Right to Self-Defense. He also has some common-sense stuff on not getting dead in the same book.

Practical Self-Defense Tactics The more you read, the better. Tom Givens' Fighting Smarter: A Practical Guide to Self-Defense is pretty good. John Farnam's Defensive Handgunning is okay, although he says some stuff I don't agree with. The Farnam Method of Self-Defense is better. I've never read a guy that I agreed with 100%--but that's a good thing. No one guy has a lock on it. Your job is to read and study, try out things, and toss out what doesn't work.

In terms of practice, I'd start with Manipulation. Start with sight acquisition--with enough practice, you can close your eyes, point the weapon, open your eyes, and find the sights are aligned (this is part of Basic Marksmanship--it runneth over). Move on to smooth handling--not fast, just smooth. No fumbles. Begin with reloads, move on to jam-clearing, and finish up with drawing. Remember--you don't have to be fast. Don't even try, just be smooth. Relax, let your muscles get nice and loose, and just run the gun smoothly and confidently. If you can do that, you almost can't help but be fast. But if you try and do everything in a rush, with your muscles tense, you'll only feel fast.

From there, marksmanship. Very simple. Take a target--1-2" or so. Just big enough that you can see it. Place it at 3, 5 or 7 yards, whichever is the closest your facilities permit. At 7 yards, feel free to make the target an inch or so bigger. Done? Okay, now hit it 5 times in a row.

It is deceptively difficult. But the theory is this: You cannot blame the gun. You cannot blame the sights. You cannot blame the ammunition, or the wind, or anything other than yourself, because the friggin' thing is so damn close. Note that you may place two targets to account for elevation being off so close, one right above the other. Aim at the top one, score against the bottom.

If you can't do it, it's okay. It's a goal.

From there, focus on shooting consistent groups, and try stretching your skills. Shrink the targets, and push the targets out further. Not because those are critical self-defense skills, but because incremental increases in difficulty expose incrementally smaller flaws in your technique and abilities.

After that, it's time for more practical skills. Shooting faster, shooting from non-standard positions, shooting one-handed, with your off-hand, etc. People think shooting faster is magic. It is not. It is the same skillset as printing teensy groups. In Bullseye shooting, you apply the fundamentals with precision, aiming for perfection. When shooting fast, you apply the same fundamentals, aiming for consistency and the elimination of gross errors.

 

[Big Cholla]

IMHO, Post No. 7 is very good advise....except for the target sizing. I contend that the human body will be incapacitated with a hit in an area covered by a small paper pie plate. Buy a supply of them and staple same to the target backer. The problem with using small targets is that continued practice at shooting very small targets will make the shooter shoot much too slowly. You can't give away 'time' in a gunfight. AND, the human body will react quicker and shut down faster if two shots are three to four inches away from each other as long as they are in that center of mass pie plate area. In 15 yrs of training CCW, every time I had a Doctor as a student, I asked the question of how close do the shots have to be and where to maximize stopping affect. The answer was always the same; better a few inches apart and from nipple to nipple up to the throat. That is some times called the "Stop Triangle".

An aside: Someone will say what about just using a 'head shot'? The odds of successfully getting a good head shot are much lower than the 'center of mass' shot. The head is well armored and moves much quicker than any other part of the main body. Let's just say, the head shot is very 'iffy', to coin a phrase. .........

 

[Muss Muggins]

I once spent an eight hour day doing nothing but drawing from the holster . . .

 

[cmansguns]

the first (and IMHO....ONLY) question that you MUST honestly answer to yourself.....and no one else is "Am I really, truly, totally (meaning mentally and physically) ready to take a human life?

You cannot answer "yes....in certain circumstances, or "yes...if the situation is me (or mine) versus the bad guy"

I propose that the ONLY mental answer to yourself has to be YES. Unequivocally without any reservations or modifiers whatsoever.

You will not find the time in any situation to mentally resolve the "circumstances" or the "other guys intent" and if you can't resolve your mental state, your physical reaction is that much further behind.

I have extreme respect for BLET (Basic Law Enforcement Training). My youngest daughter is right now entering mid-cycle of the 16 week BLET in another State and just the stories her Mom and I hear have given me profound new respect for LEO's everywhere.

Weeks and weeks of law theory and application, books and tests that must be passed before physical stuff even starts (not counting the 20 push-ups every break or class change time). Firearms readiness?....the candidates are given 3 seconds to draw their duty weapon (hers is a Glock 21....45 ACP) out of a double retention duty holster (whole belt and accessories weighing in at 26.5 lbs) with their hands at their sides, draw, fire 2 rounds, and hit the target.

3 seconds???? Are you kidding me.....on my best day I don't think I can do it but now I have a goal before she comes back home and kicks my butt at the range.

And how about that SCAR class? SCAR = Subject Control & Arrest Techniques. She has that class coming up but already this involves 'hand to hand, cuffing, take-down, immobilization, etc." Already the Instructors have mentioned to the candidates that they must be prepared to get punched "in the face" in order to know what it is like, what happens to your adrenalin, reactions etc. So daughter says she's not worried, just don't be surprised if we get a Facebook shot with her with a black eye or something. Is that just B.S.? I don't know having never been a LEO, but is sounds reasonable.

So.....back to the thread (sorry for the by-pass) there appears to be a lot more involved in "readiness" or "preparedness" than a training course or two but knowledge is always a good thing so there may be many resources available for self defense...but I still maintain that you must answer YES to that simple question....Are you really ready to do what it takes?

 

[cmansguns]

My apologies again for drifting off of the OP's questions that were not supposed to be about mindfulness or mental stuff, but I just realized that I made a typo. The Subject Control & Arrest Techniques is acronym as SCAT, not SCAR like I typed.

So it is SCAT...........just like deer, rabbit or bear $#@*!

 

[Wise_A]

IMHO, Post No. 7 is very good advise....except for the target sizing. I contend that the human body will be incapacitated with a hit in an area covered by a small paper pie plate. Buy a supply of them and staple same to the target backer. The problem with using small targets is that continued practice at shooting very small targets will make the shooter shoot much too slowly. You can't give away 'time' in a gunfight.

Agree...sort've? Okay, let me explain.

100% of my...practical practice uses a target about the size of a paper plate. Sometimes, it's a paper plate! Most of the time, it's just a used match bullseye target. But anyways, I practice different varieties of "make many holes quickly".

But I've been shooting more than half my life. I started out with a formal education in it. And I compete in BE.

The "teensy targets close up" is a "beginner" exercise. It tests whether you can apply the fundamentals--nothing more. The value is that the feedback is instantaneous, since you can immediately see when you throw a shot. And if you're uncoached, it forces you to be self-critical. Which is important, if you're going to be uncoached.

Then later, you move on to Make Many Holes Quickly. But you have the advantage of only having to worry about the slow-to-fast transition ("acceptable sight picture" vs "good sight picture" for instance).

As a side note, I found BE to be helpful when learning to shoot faster. In BE, you have to begin taking the shot before the sights settle properly. Much the same as how when shooting fast, you might begin squeezing the trigger for the next shot before the front sight has reappeared from the last.

 

[Darkenfast]

The late Stephen A. Camp wrote once (and I'm paraphrasing from memory), that when an officer started having trouble with qualifications, he took them back to bulls-eye type shooting to diagnose and fix the problem. To me it makes sense: make precise hits slowly before making precise hits quickly. The bad guys usually don't care about where their misses go.

 

[Rastoff]

sjs,
It sounds like you're asking for a quick route to expert without all the aspects that you find tedious.

Years ago Ed Parker (considered the founder of martial arts in the US) was accused of keeping the "secrets" of Kenpo from his students. One night after the general class, he told the most experienced students to stay behind. He told them to lock the doors and close the blinds; he was going to teach them the "secrets" of Kenpo.

Excited about this advanced learning, they quickly followed his direction. He told them to line up and that they were going to warm up first. He started running them through some basic drills. They did stances, simple movements, blocks, punches and kicks FOR TWO STRAIGHT HOURS! He had them all breathing hard and sweating profusely. He called them to attention and stated, "Now you know the secrets of Kenpo."

Advanced techniques rely on the basics. Master the basics and you'll find that the "advanced" techniques you're looking for are just applied fundamentals.

The awareness, judgment, mind set, etc., that you don't want to study are what make the difference between just plinking and defensive shooting. In fact, just becoming serious about working toward a defensive mindset is the first step in becoming a serious defensive shooter.

 

[Wise_A]

Advanced techniques rely on the basics. Master the basics and you'll find that the "advanced" techniques you're looking for are just applied fundamentals.

I hate trite quotes, but Bruce Lee said a thing once.

"Before I learned the art, a punch was just a punch, and a kick, just a kick. After I learned the art, a punch was no longer a punch, a kick, no longer a kick. Now that I understand the art, a punch is just a punch and a kick is just a kick."

Lee said a lot of smart stuff that could be transferred directly to shooting. He said one or two things that don't seem to apply until you think about them, and a couple dumb things, but pobody's nerfect.

--

It sounds like you're asking for a quick route to expert without all the aspects that you find tedious.

I didn't quite interpret it that way, but I see where you mean:

I don't mean basic shooting skills. I mean something that starts with a very competent handgun shooter who can shoot fairly fast and accurately, is entirely familiar with their weapon, and understands all safety rules. How to advance from competent shooter to competent self defense; from plinker, hunter and target shooter to defender.

What I would opine on that subject is that I think a lot of people think that there is some great, unseen skillset between the "SD experts" and the rest of us.

I thought that way for a long time--"How do those guys shoot so fast?". I got hung up on that. I kept reading things, looking for some secret of sight usage or pointing or recoil control. I would look at pictures of shooters with two cases in the air at the same time and wonder how that was even possible.

But one day I just tried it, and it wasn't that hard. I can Make Many Holes Quickly. I can even--*gasp*--Keep Two Cases In the Air At Once! I bet that little hat trick will lay the bad guys low! Isn't it funny, the things we can fixate on just because they look like they're magic?

The other thing is, there are a lot of writers and web-video instructors promising The Way to people. Makes sense--people want to there to be A Way, and then they want to buy it. And it's a lot easier to package and sell The Way than it is to sell The Fundamentals.

So with all these guys telling you that they've got The Way, you gotta figure one of them must be right. But how do you tell which one? There's so many. Hence the question.

And I get it, why people want The Way. They want to be prepared and ready for the fight that they hope doesn't come. But I don't think there's a lot of guys walking around who are ready, if any. Even the few experts that have survived real fights. Coincidentally, this is why I find those "How Prepared Are You?" and "How Much Do You Practice?" threads so damn humorous.

I ain't ready, you ain't ready, nobody's ready. Failure is always an option. Scary thought, maybe, but being comfortable with that idea is another step on the path.

 

[Rastoff]

Advanced techniques rely on the basics. Master the basics and you'll find that the "advanced" techniques you're looking for are just applied fundamentals.

I hate trite quotes,...

Well, from me it's neither trite nor a quote, except that you're quoting me. I made it up all by myself. You're welcome to use it though.

I ain't ready, you ain't ready, nobody's ready. Failure is always an option. Scary thought, maybe, but being comfortable with that idea is another step on the path.

Ready? Well, maybe we are and maybe we aren't. As you suggest, we won't know until something we really don't want to happen, happens. I hope we never learn.

Even so, fortune favors the prepared (yes, I know, trite quote) and there are no shortcuts. Even the most gifted need to exercise those gifts or they won't be as prepared as they could be.

 

[Grayfox]

Try shooting IDPA. Quite possibly the closest thing you're gonna find to real life practice for those of us who carry a gun.
Besides, its fun!

 

[Wise_A]

I believe that all shooting sports are games.

Now, some games can be useful. They demand specific skillsets which can be applicable. They encourage you to practice, and if you want to be competitive, then you have to engage in the sort of punishing self-evaluation and brutal honesty that most shooters wouldn't care to inflict upon themselves. They can also be helpful in developing mental control--the ability to apply the fundamentals and skills you've developed, despite match pressure. The very best competitive shooters are not the best because they are superhuman. They're the best because they perform consistently in matches.

I do not believe that any sport is an adequate representation of real-world self-defense. That goes for IDPA as well as Bullseye.

 

[Mister X]

Force-on-Force(FoF), incorporating movement into your live fire practice and ECQ(Extreme Close-Quarter) training are often completely neglected, but crucial to understanding the dynamics of reactive civilian self-defense and how to respond effectively. Perhaps they aren't currently considered basic or fundamental, but they should be and I think will be eventually. IDPA type sports simply do not simulate or reflect defensive realities very well and instead develop skill that is primarily for proactive application, which isn't what civilian self-defense is about.