Close Trigger Pull Technique?

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filipows

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I was at the range shooting a Model 19. I try to improve my skill and accuracy using various exercises. I was comparing some side by side single action vs double action accuracy.

It was suggested that when shooting DA the trigger pull be a two phase pull. A partial pull short of the break over vs one smooth pull.

Does the two phase pull make any sense to you here with more experience?
 
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I always shoot DA. I often use a staged pull when shooting past 12 yards. If you have a properly built gun you can pull through the two clicks and then ease off the last little bit. It takes a little practice but Can be done quite quickly.
JR
 
Most S&W revolvers can be staged - what you call two phased. I do it routinely at the range; whether it will work when and if I see the elephant is a whole nuthuh smoke!

It's some harder with little Airweight J-frames but still possible. All of my larger S&Ws are easy to do it with.


***GRJ***
 
I also shoot two stage. Pull the trigger until hammer is back and almost ready to drop. Gives you a chance to line up sights just before finishing pull.
 
What the above posters have not mentioned: whether SA or DA, be sure to keep your finger on the trigger as it returns to rest position fully forward. This is part of follow-through and contributes to accuracy. Also, where you put your finger on the trigger is important. Some use the first groove, others like myself use the area directly in front of that joint as it is more sensitive. Both tips from my FBI instructor.

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103
 
For plinking and bullseye, I cock the revolver and shoot single action. Otherwise, I'm practicing for self defense and using one smooth continuous pull. I've found that my groups are almost as good as single action.

I've always felt that staging the trigger is not the kind of habit you want to get into if you carry a revolver for self defense.
 
filipows said:
Does the two phase pull make any sense to you here with more experience?
Click to expand...

Not only does it NOT make sense, that type of pull can result in a jammed action and an unintentional firing.

From the S&W revolver instruction manual, page 20:

"It has come to our attention that some users of Smith &
Wesson handguns may stage the trigger in anticipation of
firing a shot. Staging is the act of pulling the trigger rearward
toward — stopping just short of — the point where the
hammer falls and the handgun fires. Such manipulation of
the trigger can reduce the userʼs control of the handgun and
can result in an unintentional discharge. Furthermore if the
user decides not to fire, release of the trigger from a position
close to the firing point in the staging process could result in
an unintended discharge."

DO NOT operate the revolver this way.
 
I never shoot a revolver SA. Makes me cringe to see an experienced shooter do it. I am as accurate or more so shooting DA. I also was in LE field and wasn't allowed to. As an instructor I had to qualify weak and strong hand at 50 yards DA. Got my old 19 out after not shooting it in a few years and shot it DA at 50 feet.
JR
157260519.jpg
 
Everyone's different, but years ago I was blessed when a retired officer and long time PPC competitor observed my lousy DA shooting and offered some coaching. I had been duped in to shooting in the "stage-the-trigger" style, and it turned out that was my problem.

My coach first had me spend about 5 minutes dryfiring at a target and concentrating on keeping the front sight on target while executing a smooth, continuous trigger stroke (and, importantly, pulling the trigger with the first joint of the finger, not the tip). Then he had me load the gun and, voila! I was a DA shooter, and I've never looked back. Since then I have coached a number of others who were struggling with DA, and have seen the same good results.
 
Let me ask you this. Suppose you are being charged by a 140 lbs. pit bull intent on taking one of your limbs off. Are you really going to take the time to stage the trigger or are you going to pull the trigger in one continuous motion? I'll bet you'll be pulling that trigger in one continuous motion and if you actually practice shooting with a DA trigger correctly you'll be able to hit that charging Pit Bull.

Yeah, I said that staging the trigger in double action is incorrect. If you need to defend yourself you really need to practice using the most effective method for using a DA trigger. If you want to hit a quarter at 30 feet then cock the revolver and shoot in Single Action, it's why these revolvers were equipped with a Target Mode Trigger in addition to a Combat Mode Trigger.

PS: I am only using a Pit Bull as an example of a very fast and very strong dog, not because the breed is excessively aggressive. If my using a Pit Bull as an example bothers you then you are welcome to substitute Doberman, Rottweiler, German Shepard, Wolf, or Cougar as an example of an animal that can run you down and have you for lunch.
 
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If you have the time and presence of mind to stage the trigger, you might as well shoot single action. SA is for plinking and target shooting. DA is for self defense, and certain competitions.

It takes smart practice and a lot of dry firing to learn DA shooting. You may have to modify your grip to get the proper leverage for DA. If you shoot with both hands, the weak hand should cover the open part of the grip and your fingers, not cup-and-saucer style. Keep the revolver high and your head low to avoid bending your wrist.

You should be able to balance a dime (flat) behind the front sight and not dislodge it when dry firing DA. Practice until you can do it 10 times in a row. If you don't have a top rail, balance it on the front of the receiver.
 
kaaskop49 said:
What the above posters have not mentioned: whether SA or DA, be sure to keep your finger on the trigger as it returns to rest position fully forward. This is part of follow-through and contributes to accuracy. Also, where you put your finger on the trigger is important. Some use the first groove, others like myself use the area directly in front of that joint as it is more sensitive. Both tips from my FBI instructor.

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103
Click to expand...
I shoot in double action with one continuous trigger pull with a controlled reset.
When I do my dry fire practice, I put my laser's red dot on the belly of my wife's favorite stuffed Pooh Bear and keep it there through the trigger pull and reset.
I'm also a directly in front of the joint trigger puller.
 
Thanks for all of the great comments. I will work on the practice drills to smooth out the single pull. I couldn't recall the term "staged" when I did the original post.

Most interesting the Smith Manual warned against the staged pull.


I appreciate the comments and the share of knowledge
 
Staging the trigger leaves one open to jerking the trigger when the sights are on target and you want to make the shot immediately, just like in shooting single action. A smooth continuous pull, while continuous maintenance of sight picture helps overcome the natural tendency to jerk the trigger. As seen from the previous posts, some folks are very good at staging the trigger and are able to make good shots with that method. I sometimes end up staging the trigger when my smooth pull gets messed up along the way to hammer drop. It is not usually my best shot.
 
I believe the S&W Double Action was designed to be pulled through in a continuous motion. I believe the inertia of the cylinder mass is part of the timing sequence. If you stop the cylinder rotation in a "staged" pull, there is no inertia. I have seen guns that wouldn't "carry up" when the trigger was pulled
s l o w l y, but had no timing problems whatsoever when a normal trigger pull was used.
 
Add me to the smooth stroke group.
That said, a member of my club is a master at staging a DA trigger.
I witnessed him shoot 12 poker chips at 50 yards using Blazer aluminum case ammo in a 4" HB Model 10.
Of course, he's a retired master sergeant from the AMU and currently a state police instructor!
 
IMHO both techniques have it's place and purpose depending on the situation. I don't doubt that sw manual warns against staged pull but I believe it's lawyers speak. Staging has been taught in Leo training and qualification. Mostly used when the target is 25 yards away where precise aiming is need to hit the target to qualify. At 15 yards to point blank range pulling through the trigger is used where not as precise shooting for center mass.
 
As stated above it's mostly taught at 25 yards. In fact out to 12 yards we were taught to point shoot. At 7 yards we shot from the hip which is quite accurate and obviously don't stage the trigger. Using a S&W revolver with its light trigger pull under stress is a recipe for premature discharge : )
That one reason I stage at longer distances. I can pull through the two clicks in way under a second and then finish the shot off accurately.
JR
 
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