Cobon +P question

[tomhorn1903]

The wife has a 625-5 Classic .45 Colt that is her home self defense piece. She is currently using Winchester PDX1 Defender 225 Grain JHP which has muzzle velocity of 850 fps and muzzle energy of 361 lbs. I have heard so much positive commentary on Cor-Bon DPX ammo that I looked up the .45 Colt load they produce. They make a 200 Gr. HP +P that in a 5" barrel ought to clock 1100 fps MV with 700+ ft. lbs. ME. My question to the forum is: Will the 625-5 safely handle those kinds of loads? Thanks in advance.

 

[DonD]

The S&W 625 fires the .45ACP cartridge, NOT the .45 Colt, big difference between the rounds, the .45 Colt will not even begin to fit the cylinder of the 625.

In heavy duty revolvers like Ruger Blackhawks, a .45 Colt can be loaded to equal or exceed .44 Mag power, WAY beyond a .45ACP.

I don't know if the 625 is certified for +P ammo or not. Regular .45ACP ammo runs in the neighborhood of 370-400 ft lbs, +P to about 500 in semi autos w/o barrel/cylinder ammo.

Be careful and only use ammo specified and marked on the barrel of the gun. Don

 

[surveyor_nm]

Just a thought...why not ask Cor-Bon?

Bill Mahnke
SWCA #1915

 

[Bullseye_GA]

The S&W 625 fires the .45ACP cartridge, NOT the .45 Colt, big difference between the rounds, the .45 Colt will not even begin to fit the cylinder of the 625.

Be careful and only use ammo specified and marked on the barrel of the gun. Don

Don... Smith & Wesson Has made multiple versions of the 625 in .45 Long Colt over the years.

There is one of them for sale on GB today, if you want to check it out


Smith & Wesson 625-5 Classic .45 Colt 5" Stainless Auction # 372355883
(now you have a whole new world of Smith & Wessons to check out!!)

As far as firing +P ammo out of a N frame goes... It would not be recommended. You could probably shoot multiple rounds through it, however, this would add excessive stress to the Cylinder lock and frame. And it will eventually grenade.

Check out Buffalo Bore ammo...

45 Colt ANTI-PERSONNEL Std. Pressure Low Flash - 225 gr. Soft Cast Hollow Nose @ 1050 fps. You should be very close to this velocity with a 5" barrel. This will be the max for your revolver, concerning safe and reliable power. They also have several other standard pressure rounds to choose from.

They (Buffalo Bore) has a warning on there site that states to only use there hot +P loads through a Ruger Blackhawk.

 

[kaaskop49]

I remember the warnings from the late 70s when the 25-5 revolvers in LC were first produced about how thin the metal was underneath the cylinder notches. I would proceed carefully...

 

[DonD]

Don... Smith & Wesson Has made multiple versions of the 625 in .45 Long Colt over the years.

There is one of them for sale on GB today, if you want to check it out


Smith & Wesson 625-5 Classic .45 Colt 5" Stainless Auction # 372355883
(now you have a whole new world of Smith & Wessons to check out!!)

As far as firing +P ammo out of a N frame goes... It would not be recommended. You could probably shoot multiple rounds through it, however, this would add excessive stress to the Cylinder lock and frame. And it will eventually grenade.

Check out Buffalo Bore ammo...

45 Colt ANTI-PERSONNEL Std. Pressure Low Flash - 225 gr. Soft Cast Hollow Nose @ 1050 fps. You should be very close to this velocity with a 5" barrel. This will be the max for your revolver, concerning safe and reliable power. They also have several other standard pressure rounds to choose from.

They (Buffalo Bore) has a warning on there site that states to only use there hot +P loads through a Ruger Blackhawk.

My humble apologies for being in error. Unfortunately, it isn't the first time.

Thought 625s had always been 45ACP. Live and learn I guess. Don

 

[lanceman193]

Is there any 45 Colt hollow point round that should not stop an intruder?

 

[Bullseye_GA]

My humble apologies for being in error. Unfortunately, it isn't the first time.

Thought 625s had always been 45ACP. Live and learn I guess. Don

No apologies are necessary here...

I learn something new here every day that I am on this Forum. I expect that you will teach me something new someday down the road also!

 

[Gun 4 Fun]

There's so much misinformation about what is and what isn't safe in a S&W 25/625 it's no wonder nobody seems to know for sure.

They will handle loads far above what most think they will and safely. I have pushed 265 cast SWC's out of my 4" and 5" guns with ease at 1150fps, with no ill affect using loads I got from the following sources. Read through John Linebaugh's site. Call him and talk to him if you are still skeptical. He is a nice guy to talk to, and knows more about what a gun chambered for 45 Colt will take than about any living man today.

Go to the bottom part of this page and read-
Linebaugh's Custom Sixguns - Heavyweight Bullets

or here-
Gunnotes...Smith & Wesson Mod 25-5


Order a back issue of Handloader #217 and read Brian Pearce's excellent article on the various levels of strength of guns chambered for .45 Colt, which includes load data that is pressure tested.

All S&W's chambered for either 45 ACP or Colt are +P rated by the factory (which is 23,000 psi).

 

[tomhorn1903]

The S&W 625 fires the .45ACP cartridge, NOT the .45 Colt, big difference between the rounds, the .45 Colt will not even begin to fit the cylinder of the 625.

In heavy duty revolvers like Ruger Blackhawks, a .45 Colt can be loaded to equal or exceed .44 Mag power, WAY beyond a .45ACP.

I don't know if the 625 is certified for +P ammo or not. Regular .45ACP ammo runs in the neighborhood of 370-400 ft lbs, +P to about 500 in semi autos w/o barrel/cylinder ammo.

Be careful and only use ammo specified and marked on the barrel of the gun. Don

Don, the 625-5 Classic "Stocking Dealer Special" 1 of 1550 mfg. 1993 IS in .45 Colt ONLY. She has been shooting this piece since 1994 after I bought it new in Feb. '94; but thanks for your input anyway.

 

[BLUEDOT37]

All S&W's chambered for either 45 ACP or Colt are +P rated by the factory (which is 23,000 psi).

You are correct, the SAAMI 45 ACP (+P) is 23K psi, but there is no official SAAMI 45 Colt (+P) rating, only the standard 14K CUP or 14K PSI, as far as I've seen. The "Ruger Only" type loads do not have a SAAMI standard either.

 

[Gun 4 Fun]

You are correct, the SAAMI 45 ACP (+P) is 23K psi, but there is no official SAAMI 45 Colt (+P) rating, only the standard 14K CUP or 14K PSI, as far as I've seen. The "Ruger Only" type loads do not have a SAAMI standard either.

Yes, but the point is that the 25's of any type are safe to +P ratings (pressure levels of 23K PSI) for the ACP round, and there's a lot of pressure tested load data for the 45 Colt that is within that range that turn out some very powerful ammo. That article by Pearce is full of good data.

 

[mkk41]

Is there any 45 Colt hollow point round that should not stop an intruder?

I'm quite certain the Federal 225gr LSWC-HP should do the trick. Fairly soft swaged lead SWC-HP bullet looks like a FBI load x 1.5.

 

[DR505]

Yes, but the point is that the 25's of any type are safe to +P ratings (pressure levels of 23K PSI) for the ACP round, and there's a lot of pressure tested load data for the 45 Colt that is within that range that turn out some very powerful ammo. That article by Pearce is full of good data.

Gun 4 Fun is right...the S&W Model 25 is capable of taking 23,000 psi (.45 ACP +P) without a hitch. His links to John Linebaugh's articles are worth a read...I doubt there are a handful of folks around the world that know as much about the Model 25 and what it can handle than Mr. Linebaugh does. That means that the venerable .45 Colt in a Model 25 can effectively throw a large, heavy weight bullet at a good velocity with a relatively low pressure. It is a great cartridge.

 

[Jaymo]

The Buffalo Bore standard pressure anti personnel .45 Colt SWCHP or hard cast WC loads would put one hell of a hurt on a bad guy.

Mkk41 mentioned the Federal LSWCHP load that I keep in my Judge, BH, and EAA Big Bore Bounty hunter.
The BH and EAA are capable of handling the Ruger only loads with ease.
My wrists and elbows may not be so accommodating

 

[perrazi]

I have read mr. linebaugh's info on this subject. I have to doubt what he says is true, however, whenever his guns need repairs he has the ability to do so himself. hotter loads accelerate wear in guns ,period. well known and well documented many times over the years. if you need hotter loads, then use a magnum cartridge, that's what they were invented for.

 

[Gun 4 Fun]

I have read mr. linebaugh's info on this subject. I have to doubt what he says is true, however, whenever his guns need repairs he has the ability to do so himself. hotter loads accelerate wear in guns ,period. well known and well documented many times over the years. if you need hotter loads, then use a magnum cartridge, that's what they were invented for.

Call him and talk to him. I have. He's a nice guy and knows more than you can imagine. Tell him you doubt what he says is true. You're guessing. He knows.

Using blackhawk type loads will wear a S&W quicker and Linebaugh says so himself. Using ACP +P level loads like Pearce shows in his various articles would take an enormous amount of shooting to wear the gun out, yet they are all the power anyone needs for 95% of all shooting/hunting needs.

It's no trick to hit 1050-1100 fps with a 250-265 grain cast swc at safe pressure levels for a model 25. They will punch striaght through anything short of a very large bear or moose, and even then, they will easily go deep enough to make it to the other side.

 

[DR505]

I have read mr. linebaugh's info on this subject. I have to doubt what he says is true, however, whenever his guns need repairs he has the ability to do so himself. hotter loads accelerate wear in guns ,period. well known and well documented many times over the years. if you need hotter loads, then use a magnum cartridge, that's what they were invented for.

Well, Mr. Linebaugh certainly has the background, experience, and knowledge to back up his statements. It is your prerogative to doubt whatever you want to doubt. Mr. Linebaugh discusses the use of the .45 Colt vs. the use of various magnums for a variety of applications. What he says makes sense; you drastically oversimplified the discussion.

It's no trick to hit 1050-1100 fps with a 250-265 grain cast swc at safe pressure levels for a model 25. They will punch striaght through anything short of a very large bear or moose, and even then, they will easily go deep enough to make it to the other side.

And that is at a pressure significantly less than where a typical magnum caliber operates. I can throw a 265 grain bullet from my .41 magnum at those velocities, but I'm pushing ~36,000 psi rather than 23,000 psi in the .45 Colt.

It boils down to what Gun 4 Fun explains...a Model 25 will handle the majority of what you need a revolver for, but it is not for everything. That is why I personally use .45 Colt, .45 ACP, .41 Magnum, .44 Magnum, .357 Magnum, etc. I like them all and they all have their place. One should know the capabilities of one's equipment in order to get the fullest use of that equipment.

 

[Gun 4 Fun]

.....One should know the capabilities of one's equipment in order to get the fullest use of that equipment.

Very well sir.