Colonel Cooper

[poledorus]

quote---------------Bell favored light rifles on practical grounds, because of relative weight and expense, and to suit his style of hunting. Bear in mind a .577 or .600 Nitro rifle was typically a double-barrel weighing 12-14 lbs unloaded. The typical small-bore magazine rifle weighed about 8 lbs-----------quote

Your engaging in revisionist history. Its well known and published by Bell himself, that he he had poor success with the big bore calibers when he first starting hunting elephants.

In fact Bell does indeed state in his book that the 6.5 was "the only" caliber he used that would always shoot right through the head of an elephant while the bigger calibers often failed to do so. To refute any of this about Bell in your post is just ridiculous and deliberately disingenuous.

I see you have beating the Big Bore Drums for years as Jack O'Conner once said about Elmer Keith. And anyone who has read big bore Keith knows what a braggart and liar he was. The smaller v/s bigger calibers wars are nothing new.

Bib Bore Black Powder shooters howled from the roof tops when smaller bore smokeless power rifles came on the seen and history proved them wrong as well.

Bell was not the only one that used smaller caliber rifles. In fact Black Game Rangers as well as poor white farmers as well as quite a few other professional elephant hunters used surplus or commercial made small caliber rifles. The fact they lived to tell about it also proves that smaller calibers killed just as well.

And in modern times there was a video of an elephant culling operation and the caliber used were all 7.62x51 military rifles and the elephants dropped like stones from just one shot.

Your wild spinning of tales and wild speculation that Judd and and his son were incompetent riflemen, who you seem to speculate missed their shots is also laughable. Even a mediocre shot would not miss an animal the size of an elephant even at a longer ranges.

The terrain. Again wild speculation and even if it was rather dense its obvious you have not much experience hunting. Terrain can suddenly thin out with open spots or it can be changed over time by natives burning it to drive out wild game for the slaughter or simply for planting of crops. In other words we will never know how thick or thin the terrain was when Judd was hunting that day and Judd was an experience enough a hunter not to try and shoot through brush he would have picked his shots. And there have been instances of an Elephant ambushing a hunter and the hunter shooting the elephant and dropping it at his feet. Your spin to the story was yet another weak attempt to make excuses for the caliber Judd was using and blame him for incompetence in marksmanship.

As to what caliber the Judd's used depends on what source you quote. More than one author claiming to be an expert on the subject has more than once ended up with egg on his face when it came to writing about the history of hunting in Africa. After all the more dramatic a story about Africa or India the more books the author sells. I could name some very famous authors who were about as honest as a used car salesman and were caught red handed embellishing the real facts.

Sorry but you failed just as others have failed when they tired to brush off or ignore or spin the truth about Bell and others who used small bore rifles to hunt dangerous game.

Try again.

You've said a great deal, and it's hard to digest easily so many errors, either of fact or logic. But I will try.

I'm not a revisionist. Read Bell more closely. He found large doubles troublesome because they were too heavy and recoil made it difficult to make fast follow-up shots. He perfected his head shot to compensate (which, by the way, sometimes he made whilst standing on a bamboo ladder in high grass...try that with a heavy double. I double-dog dare you. On second thought, I triple-dog dare you).

Read Bell again: He liked the 6.5 Mannlicher a great deal. But he used the 7x57 Mauser/.275 Rigby to kill most of his elephants. This, because he could no longer obtain 6.5 Mannlicher ammunition. Why? I'm not sure. But you can also find favorable accounts of Bell in Pondoro Taylor's book, African Rifles and Cartridges, which frankly is the very best source evaluating a vast variety of cartridges (by a professional hunter who used them).

Yes. Game rangers have used lighter rifles to good effect. None of them I knew did so because they were inherently better than mediums or heavies. They did so because that is what they were issued: generally military rifles out of the national armories. The 7.62x51 is plentiful in East and Southern Africa, so it tends to be what they carry, typically an FN FAL. I have also seen native farmers carry shotguns and other ham-jammed contrivances, even snares, to poach animals of all sizes. They don't do this because they are inherently more effective. They do so because they are typically poaching and that's what they have. Bear in mind that arms, hunting licenses and ammunition in most African countries is strictly controlled and extraordinarily expensive.

No. I've never read a word printed either by Mr. O'Connor or Mr. Keith, sad to say. I am broadly familiar with their arguments. But my choices in firearms when hunting in Africa is based on experience hunting in Africa...perhaps not as much as either Mr. O'Connor or Mr. Keith...but perhaps more than you (please correct me if I erred). My battery consisted of a Ruger M77 International .30-06 for plains game and a Ruger M77 RSM in .416 Rigby for buffalo.

I'm not speculating about Judd. My account is taken from his son's own words, printed in the East African Standard, as reprinted in the St. Louis Globe-Democrat,
“Wounded Elephant Mutilated Big Game Hunter with Tusks,” (15 Jul 1928), p18. My only error in the retelling is that young Judd was in fact armed with a .350 Rigby Magnum magazine rifle, and not the .350 Rigby No. 2, a rimmed round used in double rifles. The ballistics of both are nearly identical. Neither Judd carried a .577 Nitro, and it wouldn't have mattered, anyway. They cocked up.

Oh...and yes. I have significant experience in Africa. I lived on the continent for seven years. I've hunted extensively in Tanzania, and a bit in Zimbabwe...not as a tourist, but as a resident. I've walked the ground in Kenya near the Judd killing. I've been to Tsavo. I've hunted about the Rufigi and the Wami and in the hills overlooking Monduli. I've found myself suddenly in hippo tunnels in the high grass, and amongst herds of buffalo on the savanna. I've accomplished spectacular shots at range, and horribly muffed some close up. (I have not seen attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion, or C-beams glittering in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate.) I say this not to brag; there are likely others on this forum who have far more experience hunting than I do, in Africa or any other place. But you cannot charge me with not having 'been there and done that.' I do have some bona fides.

Nothing I wrote in my post was intended to offend you. Apparently, I have, and this I regret. But facts are stubborn things. And I will be welcomed to receive some.

Cheers

 

[xpistols]

Yet you admitted you believed I was shooting from the hip in that match based on my using QK pistol at just below line of sight.

Confused? Poor reading comprehension skills?

I said that wasn't MY game, I also mention the plate racks were where my interest was. That's head shots at 33 feet [ steel rounds ]. Couple of decades of shooting those matches. I shot in plenty of matches, just not those particular matches which I thought I'd give a go. I also mentioned why I could keep up with some of the better shooters there, like them, I've put over a million rounds down various pistol barrels. A considerable number of them in plate matches and practicing for that type of match.

As guntha45 posted in post number 278

"I think that both of us are secure enough to not care if anyone believes us or not.​

I'll add this to his thoughts, you're entitled to your opinion [ opinions are like butt holes, everyone had one ].

Yeah, some just stink more than others...

 

[bph9]

You've said a great deal, and it's hard to digest easily so many errors, either of fact or logic. But I will try.

I'm not a revisionist. Read Bell more closely. He found large doubles troublesome because they were too heavy and recoil made it difficult to make fast follow-up shots. He perfected his head shot to compensate (which, by the way, sometimes he made whilst standing on a bamboo ladder in high grass...try that with a heavy double. I double-dog dare you. On second thought, I triple-dog dare you).

Read Bell again: He liked the 6.5 Mannlicher a great deal. But he used the 7x57 Mauser/.275 Rigby to kill most of his elephants. This, because he could no longer obtain 6.5 Mannlicher ammunition. Why? I'm not sure. But you can also find favorable accounts of Bell in Pondoro Taylor's book, African Rifles and Cartridges, which frankly is the very best source evaluating a vast variety of cartridges (by a professional hunter who used them).

Yes. Game rangers have used lighter rifles to good effect. None of them I knew did so because they were inherently better than mediums or heavies. They did so because that is what they were issued: generally military rifles out of the national armories. The 7.62x51 is plentiful in East and Southern Africa, so it tends to be what they carry, typically an FN FAL. I have also seen native farmers carry shotguns and other ham-jammed contrivances, even snares, to poach animals of all sizes. They don't do this because they are inherently more effective. They do so because they are typically poaching and that's what they have. Bear in mind that arms, hunting licenses and ammunition in most African countries is strictly controlled and extraordinarily expensive.

No. I've never read a word printed either by Mr. O'Connor or Mr. Keith, sad to say. I am broadly familiar with their arguments. But my choices in firearms when hunting in Africa is based on experience hunting in Africa...perhaps not as much as either Mr. O'Connor or Mr. Keith...but perhaps more than you (please correct me if I erred). My battery consisted of a Ruger M77 International .30-06 for plains game and a Ruger M77 RSM in .416 Rigby for buffalo.

I'm not speculating about Judd. My account is taken from his son's own words, printed in the East African Standard, as reprinted in the St. Louis Globe-Democrat,
“Wounded Elephant Mutilated Big Game Hunter with Tusks,” (15 Jul 1928), p18. My only error in the retelling is that young Judd was in fact armed with a .350 Rigby Magnum magazine rifle, and not the .350 Rigby No. 2, a rimmed round used in double rifles. The ballistics of both are nearly identical. Neither Judd carried a .577 Nitro, and it wouldn't have mattered, anyway. They cocked up.

Oh...and yes. I have significant experience in Africa. I lived on the continent for seven years. I've hunted extensively in Tanzania, and a bit in Zimbabwe...not as a tourist, but as a resident. I've walked the ground in Kenya near the Judd killing. I've been to Tsavo. I've hunted about the Rufigi and the Wami and in the hills overlooking Monduli. I've found myself suddenly in hippo tunnels in the high grass, and amongst herds of buffalo on the savanna. I've accomplished spectacular shots at range, and horribly muffed some close up. (I have not seen attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion, or C-beams glittering in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate.) I say this not to brag; there are likely others on this forum who have far more experience hunting than I do, in Africa or any other place. But you cannot charge me with not having 'been there and done that.' I do have some bona fides.

Nothing I wrote in my post was intended to offend you. Apparently, I have, and this I regret. But facts are stubborn things. And I will be welcomed to receive some.

Cheers

I think you are missing the forest for the trees. The most important statement Bell made was that the large calibers he used "did not" shoot through the head of an elephant every time while the 6.5 mm did. We can argue about what bigger calibers Bell or Judd used but the most important point was "that they failed".


quote-------------------Read Bell again: He liked the 6.5 Mannlicher a great deal. But he used the 7x57 Mauser/.275 Rigby to kill most of his elephants. This, because he could no longer obtain 6.5 Mannlicher ammunition-----------quote

Your wrong yet again. Bell stated he quite using the 6.5 mm because it was not loaded for the extreme heat encountered in Africa and he had cartridges stick in the chamber. It had zero to do with him not being able to purchase ammo. It is also well known that not only did the 6.5mm fail to extract all the time but over time English ammo manufactures "loaded down" other African calibers because they too had extraction problems in the heat of Africa. It is true that Bell said the 6.5 ammo was sometimes difficult to come by and the 7x57 ammo was more plentiful but that was not the main reason he dropped the 6.5mm. Lets face facts Bell could have ordered 6.5mm ammo himself from a wide variety of sources in Both Britain and Europe if he had trouble getting it in Africa and if he had really wanted it. Bell knew this.

And you mentioned he used the 7x57, true enough, which again adds more weight to his argument that he chose a small caliber because it worked and by that time he was not going back to the bigger calibers he formerly used that failed.

Percival used a 6.5 Mannlicher, Stigan used a .303. I could go on but I mention it because some very famous people used small caliber rifles exclusively and lived to tell about it and write about it.

 

[S-W4EVER]

I am a retired Air Force LtCol, I don’t expect anybody to refer to me as Colonel. When I joined the Air Force many years ago it was considered inappropriate to refer to yourself by your retired rank for commercial purposes.

My Dad had a friend in his shooting club that was a retired USAF LTC. I didn’t get the opportunity to thank him for attending my Dad’s memorial service until he was walking to his car in the far end of the parking lot. In order to get his attention, I called him by name, prefaced with “Colonel”. I then called him Sir after that. Maybe it’s the old Army MP in me but he (& you) earned the rank and deserves the respect that comes with it.

 

[poledorus]

Of the Troops, For the Troops brother. I did chuckle a bit on the Special Duty aspect. My first duty station was Korea. The four star there at the time was an old MN boy who liked hockey. So they put together a United Nations Command hockey team to play the Korean colleges/universities. The order came down from a two star that participating on the team was our primary duty during the season, so it wasn't up to the company to decide if they wanted to approve our participation. I spent two winters playing hockey as a primary duty. I'm guessing the idea was to promote goodwill with the host nation, but it was hockey after all so I'm not sure how much goodwill was generated. Especially since we needed a police escort from the rink after winning their own national tournament.

That falls into the category of 'good duty...if you can get it.' Cheers

 

[xpistols]

My Dad had a friend in his shooting club that was a retired USAF LTC. I didn’t get the opportunity to thank him for attending my Dad’s memorial service until he was walking to his car in the far end of the parking lot. In order to get his attention, I called him by name, prefaced with “Colonel”. I then called him Sir after that. Maybe it’s the old Army MP in me but he (& you) earned the rank and deserves the respect that comes with it.

Yeah, especially as an MP it's hard to go wrong with "Sir" or "Ma'am". I even used those when dealing with enlisted folks. I recall saying to a LTC I had just apprehended about a search prior to transport "Sir, we can do this by you standing up and placing your hands on the side of the vehicle, or I can place you on the ground". As to the enlisted troops they also deserved simple respect even if I outranked them. Most seemingly appreciated it though I did get a few of the "Don't call me Sir, I work for a living" responses.

 

[xpistols]

This discussion led me to do some quick (AI Aided) research on using military titles after leaving service. From what I read Yes, retirees can use their military rank. Those that leave service without retiring cannot. The DOW site had the following:
"All retired military members are permitted to use their military titles socially and in connection with commercial enterprises. Such military titles must never be used in any manner which may bring discredit to the uniformed services.

The use of military titles is prohibited in connection with commercial enterprises when such use, with or without the intent to mislead, gives rise to any appearance of sponsorship or approval by the uniformed services or the Department of War." So if cooper did not actually retire from the military, which seems to be the case, it was not appropriate to use his rank. That said, as someone else pointed out he may not have ever done so himself, it's just that others started doing so. That would include the current Gunsite web page. I absolutely respect cooper's service. But using, or allowing the use of, a title that was not appropriate borders on stolen valor IMO. And instead of adding a measure of credibility to his commercial pursuits does just the opposite. Just my two cents.

 

[Beemerguy53]

From his perch in the great hereafter, I’m sure Colonel Cooper is chuckling…two decades after his passing, and folks are still arguing about him! Great posts on here, well-stated, from both his fans and his detractors.

I met him once, at the NRA Convention in Pittsburgh in 2004. He was using an electric scooter then, and seemed a bit frail, but he still had a firm handshake, and was gracious and courteous during our brief encounter.

I’m a fan of good writing, and Colonel Cooper was the consummate wordsmith. His column in Guns&Ammo was the first thing I read each month, and I have a number of his books. He’s a pleasure to read, and I marvel at the way he can hold a reader’s attention, even on a subject of little interest. (I couldn’t care less about hunting in Africa, but his accounts of his time there are riveting.)

Regarding shooting…I appreciate his contributions to the sport, and I own a Steyr Scout Rifle, which is everything Colonel Cooper designed it to be.

He was a man of great achievement…and had an ego to match, which comes through clearly in his writings. Like pilots Chuck Yeager and Robin Olds, and some of the doctors I’ve gotten to know, one would never accuse Jeff Cooper of being modest. Had I been around him regularly, or known him well, I suspect I would not have been a fan, but I don’t know enough about him to say anything other than the above.

This is a very interesting and entertaining thread…thanks to all who’ve contributed to it.

 

[ladder13]

The greatest man who ever lived was ridiculed from birth until today, but not for very long.

 

[ladder13]

The OP and Chief 38 are the current winners of the pot stirring competition.

Keen observation.

 

[xpistols]

From his perch in the great hereafter, I’m sure Colonel Cooper is chuckling…two decades after his passing, and folks are still arguing about him! Great posts on here, well-stated, from both his fans and his detractors.

I met him once, at the NRA Convention in Pittsburgh in 2004. He was using an electric scooter then, and seemed a bit frail, but he still had a firm handshake, and was gracious and courteous during our brief encounter.

I’m a fan of good writing, and Colonel Cooper was the consummate wordsmith. His column in Guns&Ammo was the first thing I read each month, and I have a number of his books. He’s a pleasure to read, and I marvel at the way he can hold a reader’s attention, even on a subject of little interest. (I couldn’t care less about hunting in Africa, but his accounts of his time there are riveting.)

Regarding shooting…I appreciate his contributions to the sport, and I own a Steyr Scout Rifle, which is everything Colonel Cooper designed it to be.

He was a man of great achievement…and had an ego to match, which comes through clearly in his writings. Like pilots Chuck Yeager and Robin Olds, and some of the doctors I’ve gotten to know, one would never accuse Jeff Cooper of being modest. Had I been around him regularly, or known him well, I suspect I would not have been a fan, but I don’t know enough about him to say anything other than the above.

This is a very interesting and entertaining thread…thanks to all who’ve contributed to it.

We could have more fun with a post about R Lee Ermey. "The Gunny" was medically retired as a SSG, but did get an honorary promotion to Gunnery Sergeant many years later for his continuing support for the military. I bumped into him around 2009 - very easy going and approachable. He gave me a signed (Glock) photo of him and just signed it with his name. But that's for another thread.

 

[poledorus]

This discussion led me to do some quick (AI Aided) research on using military titles after leaving service. From what I read Yes, retirees can use their military rank. Those that leave service without retiring cannot. The DOW site had the following:
"All retired military members are permitted to use their military titles socially and in connection with commercial enterprises. Such military titles must never be used in any manner which may bring discredit to the uniformed services.

The use of military titles is prohibited in connection with commercial enterprises when such use, with or without the intent to mislead, gives rise to any appearance of sponsorship or approval by the uniformed services or the Department of War." So if cooper did not actually retire from the military, which seems to be the case, it was not appropriate to use his rank. That said, as someone else pointed out he may not have ever done so himself, it's just that others started doing so. That would include the current Gunsite web page. I absolutely respect cooper's service. But using, or allowing the use of, a title that was not appropriate borders on stolen valor IMO. And instead of adding a measure of credibility to his commercial pursuits does just the opposite. Just my two cents.

Agree entirely. One additional point. The reason retirees are still permitted to use their rank socially is that they remain in the service. They have just been moved from the active to retired list, receive retired pay (this is not a pension) and remain eligible for call-up. Although mandatory call-up technically ends at 65 years, voluntary call-ups have recently been made for select service members up to 72 years of age. And, of course, the War Department could waive any restriction it desires in times of national emergency. Cheers

 

[seasoldier85]

Except for the advances in modern Medical Care, which few people can afford anyway, the 50's and 60's really were the best times to live in, work in, and raise a family or start a "high quality" gun collection. Those days are as they say "Gone with the wind" and will never come again.

Sorry, I couldn't let this fairy tale go. American's have never had it so good...



As for affording modern medical care, well, you can thank Obozocare.

 

[xpistols]

Agree entirely. One additional point. The reason retirees are still permitted to use their rank socially is that they remain in the service. They have just been moved from the active to retired list, receive retired pay (this is not a pension) and remain eligible for call-up. Although mandatory call-up technically ends at 65 years, voluntary call-ups have recently been made for select service members up to 72 years of age. And, of course, the War Department could waive any restriction it desires in times of national emergency. Cheers

Yes they can. I recall looking at the updated list of reasons troops were non-deployable for desert shield/storm. Almost half of the laundry list of items were crossed out. For me at this point they'd have to cross out a bunch more but it's possible. Excellent point about retirement pay vs pension.

 

[S-W4EVER]

We could have more fun with a post about R Lee Ermey. "The Gunny" was medically retired as a SSG, but did get an honorary promotion to Gunnery Sergeant many years later for his continuing support for the military. I bumped into him around 2009 - very easy going and approachable. He gave me a signed (Glock) photo of him and just signed it with his name. But that's for another thread.

While I never met the Gunny, I always liked him. I enjoyed his acting and from what I understand he had a heart of gold.
R.I.P.

 

[RebCop]

I used to be a big bullet guy with pistols starting with a 4 and rifles starting with a 3 in the calibers. After a career as a Police Detective and firearms Instructor and Contractor in Iraq I've changed. Shootings that I witnessed or worked did not bear up to my previous conclusions. Then FBI shooting statistics backed up my observations. The two main components of so called stopping power are Shot placement and the mindset of the person shot.

 

[xpistols]

While I never met the Gunny, I always liked him. I enjoyed his acting and from what I understand he had a heart of gold.
R.I.P.

I was at a LGS outside of Atlanta that was having a sale on Glocks. I stopped by not long before they were closing and selected my first Glock. Noticed a sign on the counter that The Gunny was there earlier that afternoon and the clerk said he's still here (hours after his scheduled appearance) and pointed to him just chatting with one of the other clerks. I went up and said hi and we talked at length about various things to the point where the store had closed the door and I realized we were keeping them late so had to break off, and he said wait a minute and grabbed one of his photos and signed it for me with a "Semper Fi" salutation. Just a very normal guy that obviously still cared about troops. IIRC I was still in uniform having gone straight to the store from the base I was assigned to at the time. Which ironically would not have been possible if I was USMC as they did not permit wearing their duty uniform off base then. Still have the Glock and the photo.

 

[guntha45]

Sorry, I couldn't let this fairy tale go. American's have never had it so good...



As for affording modern medical care, well, you can thank Obozocare.

Materially we are better off, but the moral decay and decline of our nation is pitiful. I would trade all the financial advantages we have today for the society I grew up in!

 

[mlbinkley]

Agree entirely. One additional point. The reason retirees are still permitted to use their rank socially is that they remain in the service. They have just been moved from the active to retired list, receive retired pay (this is not a pension) and remain eligible for call-up. Although mandatory call-up technically ends at 65 years, voluntary call-ups have recently been made for select service members up to 72 years of age. And, of course, the War Department could waive any restriction it desires in times of national emergency. Cheers

At almost 74 I'd gladly go back into the Navy to help out. The only problem is that there can't be any Mark 1 Able computers and Mk 37 Fire Control Directors left anywhere in the fleet. These youngsters have equipment we never dreamed of and could scarcely comprehend.

 

[S-W4EVER]

At almost 74 I'd gladly go back into the Navy to help out. The only problem is that there can't be any Mark 1 Able computers and Mk 37 Fire Control Directors left anywhere in the fleet. These youngsters have equipment we never dreamed of and could scarcely comprehend.

I know what you mean. My daughters served in the Army and their Army and the one I served it are completely different.

 

[Brownie0486]

At almost 74 I'd gladly go back into the Navy to help out. The only problem is that there can't be any Mark 1 Able computers and Mk 37 Fire Control Directors left anywhere in the fleet. These youngsters have equipment we never dreamed of and could scarcely comprehend.

FDC in 1970 we were using slide rules for azimuth and elevation calculations. Today it's computers and gps. The kids serving in that 0844 role today would be lost handing them a slide rule to make the calculations.

 

[xpistols]

I know what you mean. My daughters served in the Army and their Army and the one I served it are completely different.

Amen. We have four children who have/are served/serving in the Army. Definitely different. And no MP's like dad - go figure.

 

[xpistols]

FDC in 1970 we were using slide rules for azimuth and elevation calculations. Today it's computers and gps. The kids serving in that 0844 role today would be lost handing them a slide rule to make the calculations.

Had a buddy that went FA, probably late 80's. Guess they weren't even teaching a manual method by then.

 

[poledorus]

At almost 74 I'd gladly go back into the Navy to help out. The only problem is that there can't be any Mark 1 Able computers and Mk 37 Fire Control Directors left anywhere in the fleet. These youngsters have equipment we never dreamed of and could scarcely comprehend.

Same here. I'm retired less than a decade, and my Army son uses acronyms I've never heard of! Cheers

 

[S-W4EVER]

Amen. We have four children who have/are served/serving in the Army. Definitely different. And no MP's like dad - go figure.

One girl served as a Paralegal Specialist and the other started out as an Enlisted Nurse and commissioned as a CBRN Officer. No MP’s either.

When the Paralegal was in Iraq, she processed a lot of Naturalization paperwork (& I reminded her that was probably the most important paperwork she’d ever process, more important than some CS Court Martial).

They’re both out now.

 

[xpistols]

One girl served as a Paralegal Specialist and the other started out as an Enlisted Nurse and commissioned as a CBRN Officer. No MP’s either.

When the Paralegal was in Iraq, she processed a lot of Naturalization paperwork (& I reminded her that was probably the most important paperwork she’d ever process, more important than some CS Court Martial).

They’re both out now.

The legal beagle in our clan is still serving. Her older sister did five years after USMA in MI. Oldest son went Aviation, his younger brother, the quiet and shy one, was the AB Cav Scout and recently retired.

 

[S-W4EVER]

My cousin’s son retired a couple years ago as a CW4 Dust-Off pilot.

 

[guntha45]

One girl served as a Paralegal Specialist and the other started out as an Enlisted Nurse and commissioned as a CBRN Officer. No MP’s either.

When the Paralegal was in Iraq, she processed a lot of Naturalization paperwork (& I reminded her that was probably the most important paperwork she’d ever process, more important than some CS Court Martial).

They’re both out now.

How can anyone do naturalization paperwork, with no back ground check possible, on people that don't even have birth certificates?

 

[MyTurn]

I just really wonder how well all the new electronic based equipment (and our troops) will do on a battlefield where the enemy is using very effective weapons to disable it?

 

[oldcorps76]

Cooper's work was a great advance at the time in pistolcraft, but he was stuck in the past and that held him back. He derided the Glock as a "crunchenticker" and that military rifle development/procurement should have stopped with the M1. He did try to grudgingly keep up with the Bren ten but by then he was hopelessly obsoleted.