Colt 1917 Questions (6 pics)

[45Wheelgun]

Being a fan of 45 Wheelguns, I have always wanted a Colt 1917. Price has always slowed me down. Paying extra for the Pony has always pissed me off. Always seemed to me like I could buy 1 1/2-2 S&W's for the price of a single Colt of similar caliber.

Regardless, I have come across a Colt 1917 with no finish. I mean zero original finish. It looks to me like it was poorly refinished years ago and then the poor finish removed buy someone. Although the finish is gone (along with the Pony :-( ) the rest of the nomenclature is readable. US Markings where they belong. I think the grips have been refinished.

Having said that, it is mechanically sound, and I can get it for around $400 out the door.

Am I crazy for thinking about buying this? It would cheaply fill a hole in the collection.

 

[votan]

colt 1917s in original candition have really taken off. i saw one at a show recently looking like yours for $425. the big thing is if it's mechanically sound. there aren't many people who work on the old new service action and parts can be hard to come by.

 

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

Heck, the screws aren't buggered. If I were in your position, I'd want to fire it and see if it shot to POA. If it did, I'd just pay the money and be very happy.

I'm not really a collector. I just like a lot of good shooters, some in great condition.

 

[Chromedhearts]

I like it. For what that's worth.

 

[29aholic]

I wouldnt buy it. For that money if you are patient you can find one at least that good with all the markings.

 

[dsf]

Looks like an earlier version? Are the cylinders bored all the way through or ACP length? Unlike Smith, some early Colt 1917s were bored through & through.

 

[feralmerril]

I am not so sure from the pictures that the gun was refinished. I have had several and the original finish wasnt as good on them as 1917 smiths. In fact I once had a new one that was unfired and still greased up. They looked like fine wire brush lines in certain areas.

 

[DCWilson]

I'd buy it. This would be a placeholder filling a slot in your collection until the better one comes along.

David W.

 

[45Wheelgun]

Originally posted by feralmerril:
I am not so sure from the pictures that the gun was refinished. I have had several and the original finish wasnt as good on them as 1917 smiths. In fact I once had a new one that was unfired and still greased up. They looked like fine wire brush lines in certain areas.

Interesting, this has fine wire brush lines as well. That is what lead me to think someone had removed the finish.

These did have the Pony on the left side under the cylinder release didn't they?

Curtis: I have been patiently looking for one of these for 20 years. This is the first Colt 1917 I have seen below $500. Even back when Brazilian marked 1917's were $175, colts seemed to bring $500+

 

[feralmerril]

I was wondering also about the rampart colt missing too when I wrote that, but without research I want to say that I dont belive they had that stamping on it to begin with.
As said, and I had a unfired one, the finish was grades below a smith on the 1917 (I also had a 1917 unfired smith back then to compare).
The colt had very fine grainey looking scratchs under the lighter blue. I still think that gun unrestored at all. Not sure about the grips. Its been 40 years since I had my pair. I do have another old 1917 smith yet.

 

[KarlJ]

Go for it.... It looks better than mine. Someone gave it a black paint job finish.

 

[Muley Gil]

If it checks out mechanically, and the bore is good, I'd go for it.

 

[44wheelman]

If you really want one badly...well, it looks pretty bad. If you bought it & find a better one later, are you gonna be sore if you can't get all your cash back out of it? If you're not worried about a few bucks, go for it.


I have one of ea. & can't believe the Colts go for more money than the S&W's. Action, finish, fit... the S&W's has got it all over the pony guns.

 

[feralmerril]

Wheelman, does your 1917 colt have the logo that he thinks might be missing?

 

[45Wheelgun]

Originally posted by feralmerril:
Wheelman, does your 1917 colt have the logo that he thinks might be missing?

After browsing the 1917's on gunbroker, there was a pony. It is higher and more towards the back corner, behind the cylinder release, next to the rear screw. Half or more of the ones on gunbroker are missing the Colt logo, or it is very faint.

 

[.455_Hunter]

My M1917 Colt has it original finish, and could be best described as "thin". It liken it to blue white wash job. The metal prep was pretty rough too, with lots of visible lines and swirls. However, my markings, including the pony, are pretty crisp. I am partial to Colt's 1917 because my grandpa carried one as a Vicker's MG gunner in 1917-1918.

 

[jspick]

I think if it is in good mechanical shape I'd buy it and shoot it. Here are a couple of pictures on the one I have. My father-in-law carried it in WWII in the 765th Railway Bat. and his uncle carried it in WWI. It was issued to his uncle. It is about the nicest Colt DA 1917 I have seen. But as already been said the finish was not that great on these war time production guns. My colt emblem is faint. I shoot it on ocassion. It has a slight timing issue and is probally dirt on the inside. I have never taken it apart. It operates smoothly.

John

 

[pauls]

I just checked my father's Colt 1917 New Service, and there is a VERY faint rampant colt near the cylinder release ( I'll try to post pictures later - my camera is at my office right now ). However, his Colt has no finish either - a product of several months in a holster in the south Pacific in 1944 - 1945 as part of the 5th Marines / 27th Regiment. He was wounded ( along with his brother ) during the battle on Iwo Jima during the push towards the center of the island. He was a Browning 1917 machine gunner. He used to laugh, that during several vicious battles he was untouched, but during a lull in the fighting an amphibious tracked vehicle was throwing out water bladders ( for drinking water ) and as he ran out to grab it was shot by a Japanese soldier. Took a large chunk of muscle out of his right waistband. He was 19, almost 20.

His ( bought new ) Colt was given to him by my grandfather. He ( and my uncle ) told me that not every Marine that went ashore on Iwo Jima was armed ( hard to believe ). A lot of their weaponry was older weapons cast off from other service branches. The unarmed were expected to pick up weapons from injured / KIA Marines. My grandfather sent him the Colt while he was stationed in Hawaii. He and my grandmother sold some livestock to pay for the Colt. I ended up with the Colt and his K Bar knife. I wore his ( bloodstained ) jacket ( the stain had turned brown ) to school during high school until it finally just dissolved in the washing machine. I used to play army with a demilled ( powder removed ) Japanese hand grenade that he also brought back.

He was a good man.

 

[whelenshooter]

I'm lucky enough to have a Colt 1917 that looks like the day it came from the factory, except it is missing the original grips. I lucked into the gun from a friend of mine I've known for almost 20 years. I didn't know until I traded him out of it a year and a half ago that he even owned it! He is only a casual shooter, and not a gun person, and he really didn't know much about it. Obviously a guy doesn't take advantage of a good friend, value wise, but he got what made him happy (very happy because I gave him what it was worth) and I got what made me happy. I was surprised at how rough the finish is on the 1917 Colt compared to the 1917 Smith & Wesson. When I say the "finish" what I really mean is that the metal under the finish wasn't polished very well and there are lots of machining marks in the steel compared to the Smith & Wesson 1917. Those may be the "wire brush" marks people are talking about. Of course there is a good chance the last thing they did before putting the finish on them was to hit them with a wire brush rather than doing a traditional polishing job.

 

[Pilgrim]

Mine is really thinly finished...very little on it...and it does have what can be described as 'fine wire brush lines' on the sides. The pics don't really show them or how thin the finish really is. The Colt on the side doesn't show here either.

I'm not sure that Colt had the parkerization method down pat then.

 

[votan]

if a colt 1917 is park'd it's an arsenal refinish. all original ones were blued.

 

[Wyatt Burp]

I'd buy it in a second. To prove that point i recently bought one with no finsh, very smooth, that looks like stailess right now. It was perfectly cut to 2", fantastic front sight installed, and tuned up smoother than my Python. I paid $600 for it and couldn't be happier.

 

[Hondo44]

Interesting obseervations on these ole 1917 Colts. Does anyone own or have seen any of the early production with the proverbial 'charge holes'; chambers without a shoulder in it to keep ACP rounds from falling thru when used without 1/2 moon clips?

 

[ingmansinc]

The Colt was mfg. in 1918 and is all orig. and the Smith mfg in 1917 may not have orig grips, but not sure.
I paid more than you are talking about and if you could find what you want at a later date I think you could get your $400 back pretty easy.

On the top of the barrel from the back of the front sight to the muzzle it will appear to have been brushed by a wire wheel if it has never been refinished.

 

[tommy F]

I bought 2 NS in decent condition, a nickel 45 colt and partial blue 38 spl. For 400, you get a classic and should hold their value, even if only as a shooter.

 

[OFT]

Originally posted by Hondo44:
Interesting obseervations on these ole 1917 Colts. Does anyone own or have seen any of the early production with the proverbial 'charge holes'; chambers without a shoulder in it to keep ACP rounds from falling thru when used without 1/2 moon clips?

Yes, I had one years ago. The rounds wouldn't fall all the way through but would drop in to the point that the case head was about 3/8" below the rear of the cylinder if I recall correctly.

 

[Pilgrim]

Originally posted by votan:
if a colt 1917 is park'd it's an arsenal refinish. all original ones were blued.

Everything I've read said Colt parkerized their 1917's and S&W blued theirs.

 

[JudgeColt]

A Colt discussion on the Smith Forum! Now that is funny.

The Colt Model of 1917 had a rough BRUSHED blue finish originally. Because of the rough finish, the surface "ridges" in the finish can soon lose their finish, making the appearance look "thin." No Models of 1917 were Parkerized originally. Any Parkerized Colt Model of 1917 has probably been through a WWII rebuild.

I suspect someone "cleaned" up the subject gun with steel wool or the like, thereby removing all remaining finish. It should not affect the shooting qualities, but the gun now has no significant collector value.

 

[2152hq]

I don't think it's been refinished. I believe someone has worked over the muzzle a little with a file, but apart from that, everything I see in the photos looks like factory polish under alot of use and wear. All the polish lines I see go in the correct directions,,not necessarily the easiest to do by hand when someone 'restores' a revolver finish.

The lack of the factory mark could be nothing more than a missed stamping as you can expect most anything in war time production.

I don't see any barrel caliber marking either. I think it should have 'Colt DA 45' on the left side of a 1917. I haven't had a '17 Colt around in a while so I'm going on diminishing memory

and the pics of the other '17s posted. Commercial guns may have been marked differently.

Maybe a 'lunchbox' gun? Missing markings (Pony ,Bbl marks, US Inspectors Mark) plus the polish on the barrel looks like it's one step behind the rest of the parts as far as grit.

The underlying polishing marks show the distinct look of the factory. The slight polishing hard wheel chatter especially on the rounded surfaces that becomes apparent when the blueing begins to wear is easily seen on the cylinder and barrel. Orig. 1917 parts were wirebrushed after their final polish (whatever the grit), most probably with oil, to blend the finish just a bit and remove sharp burrs/edges. That's not an uncommon method of putting a decent finish on metal w/o alot of labor.

The 1917 polish was generally not to commercial quality, aside from the earliest ones. It got progressivly rougher as production went on. Rougher polish is one way of stating that they didn't take the polishing to a higher degree. Trying to save production time during war time. They did the same thing in 1911 production.

Blueing was the same process as the commercial production guns but the rougher metal finish makes the blueing appear darker, almost black in color sometimes on the real late ones.

Parkerizing was done to guns by US Arsenal rebuilding programs after WW1.

With a nice bore and action,,I'd probably buy the 1917 shown if I was in the market for one. It's tough to find a Colt N/S for that price from what I've seen around.

 

[jspick]

I am not an expert by any means. I have been following this thread with interest.
Looking at the finish on my Colt 1917 it looks like it was done by a sanding belt and not a wire wheel and the "grain" goes in all different directions. There is one spot on top of the barrel the the sanding marks go across the barrel right behind the sight. Mine is blued, but very thin. I believe mine to be in very good original condition, BUT that is my opinion. I'm no expert when it comes to degree of finish. That is for sure.

John