Combat custom revolvers

[Joe Kent]

SG688 and I were talking earlier this evening about the guns of the gunners during the 30's 40's and 50's. Today we have all types of factory made combat revolvers but what we would like to see are those guns of old that were modified to be handier, more accurate or easier to use. The cut-down 1917 in the pre-45 section got us going on this thread. Let's see your Fitz's,cut-downs,modified Kings, Smiths as well as Colts. If you know the stories behind your gun, share it to. Let's revisit and hopefully add to this older thread. All my best, Joe.

 

[feralmerril]

People been customiseing a long time. Here is a american built in 1871 or 1872. Long ago someone had the barrel cut back. It was found hidden in a old barn being tore down in montanna at a place that had been a stagecoach station.

 

[s&wchad]

This one belonged to a Detroit cop (where the weak are killed and eaten).

 

[Joe Kent]

TxShooter, it counts, did it come from one of your LE friends?

 

[TxShooter]

Joe, I found that one in a shop in Tyler across from the Smith County jail. Don't know the history behind it...would like to know the backstory though. Seems odd to modify a .38/44 like that when a Combat Masterpiece or Highway Patrolman would've been just as easy to come by.

I was looking for a 4" 19 or 66 at the time. Saw it in the case and thought it was a 4" 28. Maybe I'll get lucky one of these days. The trip before I went out looking for a 4" .357 and came home with a 4" 15-3. No photos of that one. Similarly set up for service use. The trigger stop was gone and the rear sight blade was rounded off, like the 19 in Jordan's "No Second Place Winner." Oddly other target features were retained. Wide target hammer, serrated target trigger, and smooth "football" target grips.

 

[Joe Kent]

James, has your revolver also been reamed to accept .357 mag.?

 

[mikepriwer]

Here is a couple of custom 1899 revolvers , both 3 1/2" barrels. This first one is
a fixed-sighted M&P :

and this second one is target-sighted :

Later, Mike Priwer

 

[TxShooter]

Originally posted by Joe Kent:
James, has your revolver also been reamed to accept .357 mag.?

Nope, still a .38 Special. Right now it's sighted in for Remington's version of the FBI load.

 

[Joe Kent]

Mike, neat guns. Do you know who modified them? Also, in your trading time, have you ever run across any Smiths or Colts modified by George Mathews of Downey, Ca.? I first saw pictures of his cut down M&P's as well as Colt PP's in the 1970 Guns&Ammo annual. At that time the article said he worked on everything up to and including New Services and Heavy Duties as well as everything in between. The ones pictured showed 3in. "King Type" rails and sights,as well as thinned "Bill Jordan" type trigger guards. I have run across many different cut downs but none of his. We ,SG-688, and I have tried to find any and all information on him but to no avail.

 

[Wayne Dobbs]

James,

When are you guys moving back to Texas? BTW, I have a shooter grade M28 that I'll make a deal on next time you're here if you're looking for one.

Wayne

 

[Bullseye Smith]

Mike, those look great. What would be the price on a 1899 that is in that condition?

 

[mikepriwer]

Joe

I had Dave Chicoine do the work, as part of a design experiment I was working
on. The 1899's can be good guns for that kind of work, because there is no
extractor lug to worry about, therefore, it almost a natural to cut the barrel
from the breech end, and then rethread it. This picture was my initial
experiment :

The problem here is that I started from a 6 1/2" barrel that was buldged
about 1/3 of the way down. The most we could salvage was 3 1/2 inches, but
becuase of the somewhat linear taper of the barrel, it was a bit too small
on its OD, right up near the face of the frame. You can see a big gap between
the extractor rod, and the bottom of the barrel. My plan was to fill that in
with a flat piece extending down from the bottom of the barrel, but it was just
too much. It never would have looked right. It would have salvaged the forged
front sight, but it just wasn't big enough, OD-wise.

So, for the two guns, we elected to cut from the muzzle end, and remount the
front sight. The barrel taper is close, but its still a tad too large at
the muzzle - maybe .030 or .040 too large. The overall appearance, at 3 1/2",
is still very nice.

The right way to do this, for 1899 barrels, is to start with one that is not
more than 1/2" longer from what you want. For a 3 1/2", a 4" barrel would be
ideal. The taper would be perfect, and the only thing that would not be right
would be the roll markings. With those two guns, the target was originally
5 ", and the fixed was 6 1/2". The target had already been refinished once, so
refinishing the barrel again was OK. The fixed had very little finish left anyway,
so it was a good gun to work with.

John -

I don't know how to price refinished 1899's ! I probably have close to $1000
in each one, which only makes sense if you want custom 1899's . My original idea
was to title the project: "What Could Have Been" , based on what the factory
did with registered magnums. Ie, allow any barrel length. Well, with 1899's, it
would have been trivial for them to have offered that !

Later, Mike Priwer

 

[MKT]

Here are a couple shots of my Pre-Victory, which had been semi-Fitzed in the late Forties. Still has the lanyard loop, Fitzed trigger guard and short barrel. The barrel wasn't cut, it is a early post-war snubbie barrel by the serial number, with the proper ejector rod installed. Also, this one does not have a bobbed hammer.

It is a fast shooter too. I took it out to one of the team practices and everyone who shot it on the head plate machine fell in love with it.

 

[AJMBLAZER]

Okay, what was the thought process behind the cut trigger guard like some of these have?

 

[JohnK]

Cutting the trigger guard was supposed to give quicker purchase of the trigger.

I think it's a bad idea, and a light hit on the remaining guard, can collapse it, and tie up the gun. The trigger can also snag, and fire unintentionally.

I've seen much more tasteful thinning of the right side of the trigger guard (right handed shooter) which still gives some trigger protection, while still allowing a bit more access to the trigger.

I do love seeing these old mods.

Always wanted a cut down (about 3") barreled 1917 .45 ACP.

 

[AJMBLAZER]

Originally posted by JohnK:
Cutting the trigger guard was supposed to give quicker purchase of the trigger.

I think it's a bad idea, and a light hit on the remaining guard, can collapse it, and tie up the gun. The trigger can also snag, and fire unintentionally.

I've seen much more tasteful thinning of the right side of the trigger guard (right handed shooter) which still gives some trigger protection, while still allowing a bit more access to the trigger.

Ah, figured it was something like that. I read an old novel a few years ago and the main character was a refugee IRA gunman from the Civil War in Ireland in the teens and 20's and was in Mexico in the late 20's. At any rate he carried a VERY customized Webly revolver that had a laundry list of mods...one of which was the cut trigger guard. I remember scratching my head at that one and the filed down front sight. Just a book though...

I do love seeing these old mods.

Always wanted a cut down (about 3") barreled 1917 .45 ACP.

Me too! Been wondering if anyone at S&W has had the thought to sell their new M1917's with a 3-3.5" barrel instead of the original length?

 

[Joe Kent]

Thanks Craig for posting some of the pictures and bits and pieces of the info that we know. Now, some of you other old gunnies reach into the corners of your memories, call your old friends, and please,please see if you can help further our knowledge. All my and Craig's best for your help. Joe

 

[TxShooter]

Joe, there're also the modified 1911s owned by Dallas County Sheriff Bill Decker and Ranger Captain M.T. "Lone Wolf" Gonzaullas. The Site M1911 page had the photos a while back.

 

[Joe Kent]

James, your right about the custom 1911's. Many of the modified guns that have tripped my trigger have come out of your stomping grounds. I have seen both "Lone Wolf's" and Sheriff Decker's 45's first hand. A friend in St.Louis displayed them with the Colt Collector's display at Cody a couple of years ago and and I make regular pilgrimages to the Ranger museum in Waco where Lone Wolf's are. They are certainly in the spirit that we are discussing this day. As you well know, many of the Rangers,both then and now,used and carried "tricked" out sidearms. Let' hope more come out of the woodwork with this thread.

 

[AJMBLAZER]

Anybody have a link to these customized 1911's?