Combined powder use?

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For the first time in 35 years I did a really stupid thing. (Well maybe not the first time, but never this stupid). In emptying my powder measure I put about a 1/3 of a lb of 231 into about 3/4 of a lb of WST. I just grabbed the wrong container from my shelf of powders and stuck it under my measure while I backed the adjustment stem all the way out and threw all the remaining amounts into the WST container. I now have about a lb of mixed powder. I did call Winchester propellants (division of Hodgdon) and spoke to a tech there, and asked it there was any use for this other than fertilizer. He offered "rapid fire starter" as an option.

What a waste of scarce 231 and WST. I'm thinking of revamping my powder shelf and relocating everything so no two similar containers sit near a similar one.

Anyone know any other use for this mess?
 
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I'm not surprised that they told you to ditch it due to legal ramifications. Since they're both handgun powders it could be argued that you could take the starting load data for the faster of the two powders and work up loads from there....me?, I don't think it would be worth the trouble so I agree that it should go out in one last blaze of glory
 
you could write your name in the grass with it and light it off. It would look interesting for a while. Have a garden hose handy and take a picture.

Remember, there is no way to assure you have a uniform mixture if you decide to use it.

I keep my powder in a separate room and only have the container of what I'm using near the press.
 
For me one can of powder sits on the reloading bench and the rest remain on the shelf. The can on the bench does not return to the shelf until the powder dispenser has been emptied.

I have never used WST, but a quick look at internet load data suggests the load data is not significantly different from 231. I wouldn't try to work up any 9mm or 40 S&W loads, but I'm willing to bet 38 special or even 45 ACP might work assuming you can find loads with overlapping powder data.
 
Don't try it unless you *really* know what you're doing

Common sense says not to risk a $500 gun for $20 worth of powder, but...

I know it's wrong to encourage the use of mixed powders and I would definitely not recommend it to anyone who is not absolutely sure of what he was doing, but I did the same thing a few months back when I was making test buckshot loads with 1# containers of Red Dot and Unique. On my metallic reloading bench I make it a habit of only one powder container on the bench at a time and dump the powder back into the container after each session. This happened on the shotgun reloading table which is a lot smaller with no space for the powder container. After seeing what I did :eek:, I blended the powder really well, calculated the density from the 8# jugs from which the powders came from and figured I had a mixture of 2:1 Unique:Red Dot, about 2/3 of a pound of the stuff.

From my loading experience, I knew that the volume-energy of Unique and Red Dot were almost identical in my 40 S&W loads. The powder measure setting for 5 grains Unique was nearly identical to 4 grains of Red Dot and they both gave me about the same MV in my M&P 40. I knew that the Unique gave me lower pressures, but the Red Dot was a little cleaner burning because it produced higher peak pressure (23,000 psi compared to 17,000 psi with Unique according to Quickload). I plugged in the numbers to Quickload using numbers weighted 1/3 Red Dot ant 2/3 Unique to see what range I could load this mixture with.

I started low with 4 grains (worst case 100% Red Dot) and worked up to 5 grains (worst case 100% Unique) and found that the mixed powder performs pretty much like pure Unique but burns cleaner with fewer unburned flakes and less soot probably due to slightly higher peak pressures.

I typically load my 40 S&W in the region of 75% of SAAMI max pressures and never get anywhere near the peak so even if Quickload is flawed in its calculations, it's not off by too much. It usually predicts MV's within 10% so I typically load to 75% max for an extra margin of safety. I usually just make sure I am above 10,000 psi for a good clean burn.

If you have an unknown powder but are sure it is meant to be used within the load range of what you're shooting, you can work up a safe load. It may not be optimum but if you stay well below max for either powder, a mixture of both will probably be usable. After all, most powders are blends and if you buy surplus military or pulldown powders, they typically give you a "start" point and the rest is up to you. So long as you stay conservative, you can use the powder safely.

Now if it were a fast and slow pistol powder like W231/W296, Red Dot/Blue Dot, or a rifle and pistol powder that got mixed, it would have gone into the flower bed.
 
Use it for cool effects in the fireplace...

Like, you know, the witch doctor that dances around then throws stuff on the fire to make it flare up and smoke.

Or. Do what reddog says.

I'm going to PM you because I don't want to post this generally.
 
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If it were a shtf & the only powder I had, I would shake it up well & work up some loads. It isn't though, it's just about losing $20 worth of powder. Law food my friend.
 
For me one can of powder sits on the reloading bench and the rest remain on the shelf. The can on the bench does not return to the shelf until the powder dispenser has been emptied.

I have never used WST, but a quick look at internet load data suggests the load data is not significantly different from 231. I wouldn't try to work up any 9mm or 40 S&W loads, but I'm willing to bet 38 special or even 45 ACP might work assuming you can find loads with overlapping powder data.

It actually is quite diff. The issue though, it changes the burn characteristics of both if Mixed together. Why it's not a good idea to try & extrapolate unless it is an emergency. If it were no ammo vs the risk in a zombie apocalypse, well I am developing loads with your new *** powder.
 
I have 1.5" x 3" cards I've made up with the names of the powders I use and put them in the powder dump when I pour in the powder.

Not that I'm getting old & forgetful,, But I check the name on the card and the jug before I add more powder.. Or before I empty the dump back in the jug. Or if there is some powder in the dump and I go back in a couple days ,, I know what is in the dump.

Some time ago, I almost made a similar mistake. That's when I made the cards.. Over the years I have found, sometimes it just makes sense to double or triple check myself.. :D :eek: :confused:

Years ago I remember an article about a .454 Casull triplex load, using three different powders..
I thought it was scary just reading the article.. :eek: :eek:
The 231 / WST should make a pretty fire..
 
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I did a similar thing only with a rifle powder and a handgun powder.

You know the correct thing to do.;)

You will sleep better,:)

Burning up a pile is better than fertilizer it's more fun!. Besides it is really not a good fertilizer especially this time of year.
 
I have 1.5" x 3" cards I've made up with the names of the powders I use and put them in the powder dump when I pour in the powder.

Not that I'm getting old & forgetful,, But I check the name on the card and the jug before I add more powder.. Or before I empty the dump back in the jug. Or if there is some powder in the dump and I go back in a couple days ,, I know what is in the dump.

Some time ago, I almost made a similar mistake. That's when I made the cards.. Over the years I have found, sometimes it just makes sense to double or triple check myself.. :D :eek: :confused:

Years ago I remember an article about a .454 Casull triplex load, using three different powders..
I thought it was scary just reading the article.. :eek: :eek:
The 231 / WST should make a pretty fire..

I use removable labels, they go right onto the face or cap of the powder measure whenever I switch powders. Only way to f this up is be asleep or under the influence! I have three presses on the bench, three powder measures, so tracking powder is realllllly important.
 
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I do all the things you all recommended, I just grabbed the wrong Winchester container when returning the powder back to the container. I feel good that I realized it as soon as I started screwing the lid back on the container. It now has a large label on the container, DON'T USE, MIXED POWDER!!!

Since I have over 20 lbs of powder on my shelf, including plenty of 231 and WST, this will be set aside to next spring to fertilize my wife's flower bed.
 
Fertilizer?

I've heard this but how far would a pound of powder go? Maybe if you were discarding an 8 lb jug.... Anyway, as it degrades (over what period of time I don't know) it gives off nitrogen from the nitrated cellulose, which is good but how much good is it going to do? It's probably better to say, "Throw it outside, it won't hurt grass or plants."

Now what would be REALLY cool is that if I could buy a 50 lb sack of Scotts Turf Builder and use it as gun powder. I would probably be on the NSA radar for making a fertilizer bomb.
 
I don't think I can add anything that hasn't been brought up. In over 35 years, I've never had this happen, and in these times, I wouldn't be happy if I did. I'm not one to take chances, so I wouldn't use it; I would probably wait till dusk and make some fireworks. I don't have a green thumb, so lighting up the night would be more fun! :-)
 
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