Concealed Carry versus the Post Office

[Sgt Preston]

Sgt Preston here. I dropped by our local Post Office today to buy some stamps. While I was waiting my turn in line, I spotted a poster on the wall which displayed a Handgun circled in red. The circle had a red line diagonally thru it. The poster was just like the no smoking signs showing a cigarette in it. I got out of line & read the text. Did you know it's a Federal Felony to bring a gun into any Post Office. What do those of you who carry do when you go to the Post Office?

 

[Sgt Preston]

Sgt Preston here. I dropped by our local Post Office today to buy some stamps. While I was waiting my turn in line, I spotted a poster on the wall which displayed a Handgun circled in red. The circle had a red line diagonally thru it. The poster was just like the no smoking signs showing a cigarette in it. I got out of line & read the text. Did you know it's a Federal Felony to bring a gun into any Post Office. What do those of you who carry do when you go to the Post Office?

 

[BarbC]

Fortunately in this area, we have contract annexes for post offices, which aren't federal property and aren't posted.

 

[DougE]

Originally posted by Sgt Preston:
Sgt Preston here. I dropped by our local Post Office today to buy some stamps. While I was waiting my turn in line, I spotted a poster on the wall which displayed a Handgun circled in red. The circle had a red line diagonally thru it. The poster was just like the no smoking signs showing a cigarette in it. I got out of line & read the text. Did you know it's a Federal Felony to bring a gun into any Post Office. What do those of you who carry do when you go to the Post Office?

It's illegal to carry in the post office here too so I just stash mine in my vehicle when I have to go in there.

 

[SuperTroll]

It's odd, but my post office has no signs about guns at all.

I've looked carefully.

My social security office does, but not the post office. My social security office also has an armed security guard.

Post office is real mellow.

I have a locking center console that works good for me. I leave the gun loaded and try to get in and out fast. Don't like the idea of leaving it in the car, locked or not.

 

[Gutpile Charlie]

I just leave it in the car.

 

[Firehouse]

Originally posted by Gutpile Charlie:
I just leave it in the car.

Yeah, me too.

 

[smith revolver cop]

I'm careful to keep it well concealed. I've read those posters. Didn't see anything about them guaranteeing my safety, nothing about an armed postal inspector on-duty at all times... and we all know there have never been any shootings or violent incidents at any post offices, and they've never been robbed, never a postmaster, postmistress, or postal clerk murdered...

 

[jj2am44]

Originally posted by Firehouse Firearms:

Originally posted by Gutpile Charlie:
I just leave it in the car.

Yeah, me too.

+1--It is a federal facility.

 

[GatorFarmer]

If you look up the actual law cited by the poster, it is reference to carrying a weapon for an unlawful purpose or something of that nature. That makes it arguable as to whether or not it applies to someone legally carrying a concealed handgun.

Unlike - say entering a military base - setting foot into a post office doesn't grant the authorities the right to search you.

 

[robertrwalsh]

I had occasion to look into this for a CCW class I used to teach. I went to far as to contact General Services about it. The sign talks about para a & b but does not mention para c & d. What it amounts to is that if you are LAWFULLY in possession of a weapon and you are in an area of the building open to the public and you are conducting normal business in a lawful manner you are NOT in violation of the law.

 

[SmithNut]

That makes it arguable as to whether or not it applies to someone legally carrying a concealed handgun.

My opinion? Better to leave it in the car than to get caught and have to spend the next 10 years and all your savings argueing the case before a judge.

It is, afterall, a federal facility. I think there's plenty of examples of other federal facilities that are off-limits - courthouses come to mind.

Not a lawyer, didn't stay in a Holiday Inn last night, and am down significantly on my 401k recently, so that I'd only be able to argue for 2-3 years before running out of money, and I'm not sure I'd have the longivity to stay until I was found right on this issue.

 

[jj2am44]

FWIW

The statute in questions is 18 U.S.C. 930 - Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal Facilities.

(a) Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility), or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both.

However, if we look further down to the exceptions under (d), we find:

(d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to—

(1) the lawful performance of official duties by an officer, agent, or employee of the United States, a State, or a political subdivision thereof, who is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of any violation of law;
(2) the possession of a firearm or other dangerous weapon by a Federal official or a member of the Armed Forces if such possession is authorized by law; or
(3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.

As you can see in (d)(3), it is lawful to carry a firearm into a Federal facility incident to hunting or "other lawful purposes." Just what are "other lawful purposes" though? If you carry a gun into a Federal facility with the intent to commit a crime therein, then it would seem pretty obvious that you are not engaged in "lawful purposes." However, if you carry a concealed weapon, with a valid concealed weapons permit, and you are not intending to commit any crimes therein, you should be well within the meaning of "lawful purposes."

 

[Kollin]

Originally posted by GatorFarmer:
If you look up the actual law cited by the poster, it is reference to carrying a weapon for an unlawful purpose or something of that nature. That makes it arguable as to whether or not it applies to someone legally carrying a concealed handgun.

Unlike - say entering a military base - setting foot into a post office doesn't grant the authorities the right to search you.

+1 But I don't want to be a test case. That is why I don't OC and only CC in there.

 

[MTKTM]

Yes, Post Offices are "gun free zones" which is the reason nobody has ever been shot in one.

In Montana the CCW statutes prohibit carry in courthouses, banks and bars. Seems to me that these are probably the main places you might need to be carrying. Maybe they should put convenience stores on the list as well!!

 

[Joel C]

I carry in PO all the time, but then again, I am the Po Po.

 

[Stokesdead]

This will probably not be a popular opinion around here. I believe carrying of a gun for protection is a very personal thing. One in which you have to decide what works for you so so please this is not advice so do not take it as such. With that said...

When I go somewhere that i am not "supposed" to carry, I carry concealed.

Actually i am always concealed but you get the point.

~Chris Stokes

 

[SuperTroll]

Chris, you must keep in mind that there's quite a difference when you carry in a post office or other federal building.

You can lose your carry permit, lose your right to even own a gun....and at worst, you could go to prison.

Maybe you'll just spend $25,000 on attorneys.

You can't compare that to a posted restaurant, where all they can do is ask you to leave if they should spot your pistola.

Nice to be macho, but also nice to be wise.

 

[OKFC05]

While shooting skeet with an FBI agent working crimes on federal property, I asked about the "authorized carry" in Post Offices and other Federal buildings. He said a CHL is NOT an authorization; authorization must be specifically from the Feds.

I also asked why we don't see Federal prosecutions for carry in Post Offices. He said nearly all Post Offices have concurrent jurisdiction agreements, and just call the local cops-who ARE authorized to carry in Post Offices.

 

[38-44HD45]

The "other lawful purpose" language of 18 USC Sec. 930 has no case law interpreting it, last time I looked. I think a good argument can be made that otherwise lawful carry under the authority of a valid state CHL is an "other lawful purpose." I happen to live in a federal district where that argument would likely be a winner. (Home of the original Emerson opinion.) Obviously, it would cost tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees to have the opportunity to be the test case.

However, I was given to understand that in 2007 or early 2008, the USPS promulgated its own rules directly forbidding such carry, thus closing the door on the "other lawful purpose" possible loophole. Those rules would have been promulgated under the authority of 18 USC Sec. 930 as the enabling statute, thereby "clarifiying" its intent to our detriment. If so, I'm not sure it would matter if the PO was a contract office or a "federal facility," since I'd think post office regulations would apply in both.

It's all okay, though. I'm sure the nice postal employee in the back with the lengthy mental history, bad marriage and the MAK-90 will protect us.