Concerned that NJ will soon come down hard on guns

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Within the past year, the NJ legislature passed about 20 anti gun laws All but the most onerous became law. Governor Christie vetoed two or three.

I expect to soon see:

A New York State type of ban on semi auto rifles, with no meaningful grandfathering.

Much harder restrictions on getting and keeping the firearms purchaser card

Magazine ban down to 10 or 7 from the current 15.

Not much to do except comply when it happens
 
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I reckon ya'all need to load up the truck and head out yonder. Plenty of room down in the holler.

Where do ya think all your neighbors have gone? That is when Christie isn't blocking the bridges. That's how the Berlin wall got started. :D
 
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Or, if you are in NJ perhaps if enough were to vote (not with your feet thing) and LOUDLY and regularly object...

But if that doesn't work let NJ become the utopia the legislature and Governor, who signs the legislation is seeking and move west or south young man!

But then there is that voting thing...
 
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You're probably right

Having lived (past tense) and worked in NJ for many years, it never ceases to amaze me how ignorant and stupid the electorate is, a microcosm of what we are seeing nationwide.

The choices between the current occupant of the governor's office, whose only interest is running for president, and the opposition, which is composed of a totally out of touch bunch of sycophants loyal only to power brokers and lobbyists is a disgrace.

I think your assessment is spot on. Bad gun laws are looming in NJ's future, and no leadership on the opposing side.
 
"Not much to do except comply when it happens"

Music to a politician's ears.

Population of New Jersey is just under 9,000,000 (2010 census). Assuming that NJ residents follow the national norm for firearms ownership, this means that about 3,000,000 people own firearms.

Total populations now in NJ prisons and jails is about 30,000. Unless NJ is significantly different than any other US state, that number is just about capacity (or a little over capacity). That number equates to about 1% of NJ gun owners. So, if one of every one hundred NJ gun owners refuses to comply and appears in a public peaceful civil disobedience gathering with a banned item:

1. There is no way to arrest that number of people.
2. There are no jail cells to hold that number of people.
3. If every one refuses to post bail or give a promise to appear there will be no way to proceed with any criminal case.
4. If every one charged enters a 'not guilty' plea and demands a trial by jury:
A. 30,000 criminal cases would have to be scheduled for arraignments, advisements, preliminary hearings, and trials;
B. 360,000 NJ adult residents would have to serve on juries (actually about 2,500,000 to 3,000,000 would have to be called to jury duty during selection processes);
C. If all 30,000 were convicted and refused to pay any fine or costs, or accept any terms of probation or conditional release, the State of New Jersey would have to release every other prisoner now being held in every prison and jail in order to make room for these new inmates.

The short version is that just 1% of the subset of population comprising gun owners could, if organized and standing firm, completely shut down the legal system of the State of New Jersey (or any other state) while also making a crystal clear demonstration in the public media that no law can be imposed without the willing compliance of the vast majority of the population.

Other possibilities include organizing a relatively small percentage of gun owners, say 5% (roughly 150,000 NJ gun owners), and publicly refusing to pay any NJ taxes (property tax, school tax, income tax, etc) as long as the objectionable (and unconstitutional) laws remain in force. The immediate impact would be hundreds of millions of dollars in lost revenue for the State of New Jersey. Those in the state capitol would learn very quickly that it is impossible to impose their will without the means to pay salaries to all the cops, prison staff, judges, and others necessary to gain compliance.

Your statement "Not much to do except comply when it happens" is exactly what they want to hear. Stop giving them what they want and start organizing with like-minded people willing to engage in peaceful civil disobedience on the largest possible scale.
 
Population of New Jersey is just under 9,000,000 (2010 census). Assuming that NJ residents follow the national norm for firearms ownership, this means that about 3,000,000 people own firearms.

Total populations now in NJ prisons and jails is about 30,000. Unless NJ is significantly different than any other US state, that number is just about capacity (or a little over capacity). That number equates to about 1% of NJ gun owners. So, if one of every one hundred NJ gun owners refuses to comply and appears in a public peaceful civil disobedience gathering with a banned item:

1. There is no way to arrest that number of people.
2. There are no jail cells to hold that number of people.
3. If every one refuses to post bail or give a promise to appear there will be no way to proceed with any criminal case.
4. If every one charged enters a 'not guilty' plea and demands a trial by jury:
A. 30,000 criminal cases would have to be scheduled for arraignments, advisements, preliminary hearings, and trials;
B. 360,000 NJ adult residents would have to serve on juries (actually about 2,500,000 to 3,000,000 would have to be called to jury duty during selection processes);
C. If all 30,000 were convicted and refused to pay any fine or costs, or accept any terms of probation or conditional release, the State of New Jersey would have to release every other prisoner now being held in every prison and jail in order to make room for these new inmates.

The short version is that just 1% of the subset of population comprising gun owners could, if organized and standing firm, completely shut down the legal system of the State of New Jersey (or any other state) while also making a crystal clear demonstration in the public media that no law can be imposed without the willing compliance of the vast majority of the population.

Other possibilities include organizing a relatively small percentage of gun owners, say 5% (roughly 150,000 NJ gun owners), and publicly refusing to pay any NJ taxes (property tax, school tax, income tax, etc) as long as the objectionable (and unconstitutional) laws remain in force. The immediate impact would be hundreds of millions of dollars in lost revenue for the State of New Jersey. Those in the state capitol would learn very quickly that it is impossible to impose their will without the means to pay salaries to all the cops, prison staff, judges, and others necessary to gain compliance.

Your statement "Not much to do except comply when it happens" is exactly what they want to hear. Stop giving them what they want and start organizing with like-minded people willing to engage in peaceful civil disobedience on the largest possible scale.

I have not confirmed the assertion from bushmaster1313 that roughly 20 new firearm laws have passed in New Jersey the past year but for sake of discussion will accept the assertion. It doesn't surprise me New Jersey is passing a significant number of "under the radar" firearm laws. It seems to be the modus operandi du jour from our elected and appointed officials. So, who doesn't think New Jersey would not have been better served by enforcing current laws instead of passing roughly 20 new ones?

Evidence that LoboGunLeather's basic premise works in reality:
The below Town Hall article refers to such action where 1,000-3,000 firearm owners openly violated the new Washington I-594 law on the State Capitol grounds.
link to article:
Over 1,000 Gun Owners Violate Washington

From the Townhall.com article titled Over 1,000 Gun Owners Violate Washington's I-594 - In Front Of Police!:
"The Second Amendment is gradually being eroded, state by state, ....."

We're are getting such a large volume of new rules, regulations, and laws from both Federal and State governments and entities it's impossible for the 'average Joe' to keep up with, not just any new firearm regulations, but all the other stuff too. Reminds me of the old saying, "If you can't dazzle 'em with brilliance then baffle 'em with (a whole lot of) BS."

From The Congressional Research Service:
"...the number of final rules published each year is generally in the range of 2,500-4,500, according to the Office of the Federal Register."
 
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That's what happens when you live in a communist country
Russia is loosening its requirements for gun ownership
https://www.rt.com/news/206703-russia-guns-self-defense/
the Russian government eases restrictions, allowing citizens to carry licensed weapons for the purposes of 'self-defense.'

Japan, a democracy and very capitalistic, went the other way.
A Land Without Guns: How Japan Has Virtually Eliminated Shooting Deaths - The Atlantic
The only guns that Japanese citizens can legally buy and use are shotguns and air rifles, and it's not easy to do.

Between half and 2/3 of US gun deaths are suicides. Japan, with almost no guns, has a suicide rate twice that of the US.
The Japanese are not us. They have a long tradition go obedience to authority and behaving in a manner appropriate to their neighbors. We do not.
 
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You spend money every year to use a gun. Let the politicians know that if you can not use that money for shooting, your new hobby will be politics and you will donate to, work for, and vote for anyone that runs against them. Write, phone, e-mail often. They love hearing from the little people.
 
No regrets in being a refuge from NJ

November 2 1972
I boarded a jet for boot camp in Orlando FL
I left never thinking on returning.

I never forgot the cap gun I ordered from the back of a magazine in about 1960. It came in the mail. It was OPENED!
The dreaded tool for shooting greenie stick-um caps was inspected by the USPS.
I felt violated. Mistrusted and did not like it.

The feeling was perpetuated in 1971 when I a applied for permit to buy a High Score 177 pellet gun. Treated like a criminal for no reason.

Well I escaped and will not return.
The handgun application sealed the deal when I turned 21.
I walked out on the interview. Got my VA address and was free at last.
Thanks be to God.
Now I have been a cheese head since 1976.
 
I reckon ya'all need to load up the truck and head out yonder. Plenty of room down in the holler.

Where do ya think all your neighbors have gone? That is when Christie isn't blocking the bridges. That's how the Berlin wall got started. :D
Funny you should mention the Berlin Wall. There is a Berlin NJ!

I understand moving isn't easy but if you're near Pa just drive across. You can still work in NJ and the food and local culture is the same!
 
Call me a wimp if you want.
I will comply and let someone else be the test case.

I wasn't going to reply but, nope, never. I'm legally allowed to own, and all I own are legal. I make sure any dealings I have are fully legal and will walk away if I feel something is amiss.
 
I wasn't going to reply but, nope, never. I'm legally allowed to own, and all I own are legal. I make sure any dealings I have are fully legal and will walk away if I feel something is amiss.

Yes
It's just the way it is.
Civil disobedience is not an option.
It's not like a gun violation in New Jersey is a misdemeanor.
Gun violations are taken very seriously in NJ and I am careful not to get even close to a violation.

For example, 15 rounds in a magazine are legal, but I limit myself to 10 round magazines.

Would really ruin my day if I got stopped or into an accident on the way to the range and a sixteenth round could somehow be crammed into a magazine advertised to hold only 15.
 
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A million (or at least several thousands) man and woman march on Trenton of responsible gun owners will get their attention protesting, peaceably, the new laws. You would be excerising your 1A rights to peaceably assemble and petition your govnerment in support of your 2A rights. Then, other marchs and rallies in NYC, DC, Chicago, etc. The Left could not hide or sweep that much attention away. :)
 
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"An unjust law is NO law." (St. Augustine, 354-430) Penalties and consequences may attach to noncompliance, but there is manmade law and manmade law. EVERYTHING that was done in Hitler's Germany was 100% LEGAL.

Martin Luther King quoted the above and many other authorities in "Letter From The Birmingham Jail",1963 : "I would agree with St. Augustine that "an unjust law is no law at all."

"Now, what is the difference between the two? How does one determine whether a law is just or unjust? A just law is a man made code that squares with the moral law or the law of God. An unjust law is a code that is out of harmony with the moral law. To put it in the terms of St. Thomas Aquinas: An unjust law is a human law that is not rooted in eternal law and natural law. Any law that uplifts human personality is just. Any law that degrades human personality is unjust."

Of course this calls into question the whole notion of the proper authority of the state. And as a general rule our "public servants" don't like that one bit. No, siree.
 

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