Converting a model 60 to 9mm

[RightWinger]

I recently bought a model 60-7 NIB, and I have several j frames I carry on a daily basis, so I was thinking of converting this gun to take 9mm......but here are some questions I have that are making wonder if it would be a wise thing to do:

1. this model 60-7 is .38 only, would it be cheaper to get the cylinder reamed for .357 and have the forcing cone adjusted?

2. Is 9mm really more effective than even a .38+p?

3. Will I be able to shoot .38's out of this gun after I have it converted to 9mm or will it be a dedicated 9mm only gun?

4. If converted, can I shoot 38 super out of it?

5. Will I be destroying the value of this gun?

6. Will accuracy suffer from the difference in bullet diameter?

7. what advantages would 9mm give me over .38?

Any information would be greatly appreciated!

 

[Jimmymac46]

I recently bought a model 60-7 NIB, and I have several j frames I carry on a daily basis, so I was thinking of converting this gun to take 9mm......but here are some questions I have that are making wonder if it would be a wise thing to do:

1. this model 60-7 is .38 only, would it be cheaper to get the cylinder reamed for .357 and have the forcing cone adjusted?

2. Is 9mm really more effective than even a .38+p?

3. Will I be able to shoot .38's out of this gun after I have it converted to 9mm or will it be a dedicated 9mm only gun?

4. If converted, can I shoot 38 super out of it?

5. Will I be destroying the value of this gun?

6. Will accuracy suffer from the difference in bullet diameter?

7. what advantages would 9mm give me over .38?

Any information would be greatly appreciated!

Respectfully, here are your answers in order:

1. No
2. No
3. No
4. No
5. Yes
6. Yes
7. None
and
8. Why?

 

[THE ROLLING STONES]

RightWinger,

Just go out and buy a S&W model 940 in 9MM. That is the best way to go. That way you are not destroying the value of any firearm. That Jimmymac46 has already said.

Sincerely,
THE ROLLING STONES

 

[scooter123]

The easiest way to have it converted is to obtain a second cylinder assembly specific to 9mm and have it fitted to your gun. This will allow you to shoot 9mm ammo by simply swapping out the cylinder assembly. Since this retains the original cylinder it's only effect on value will be a slight gain due to the added benefit of that second cylinder.

As for the effect on accuracy, my hunch is that it will only result in a slight loss at most. The 9mm uses a bullet diameter of 0.356 inch and the 38 bullet diameter is 0.357 inch. Frankly, this difference is small anough that I don't think it will actually have much effect on accuracy and it would be very interesting to see someone actually do some controlled testing and post the results.

IMO the biggest issue would be the potential for leading in the barrel due to blowby with the smaller bullet. However, use of jacketed 9m ammo would probably eliminate most of that potential problem and FMJ 9mm ammo is pretty much standard anywhere you look. In fact, you'll have to look long and hard to find any LRN 9mm ammo today.

As for why anyone would want to shoot 9mm, those who poo poo this idea haven't been shopping for ammo recently. In my area 9mm range ammo runs 9.47 per box at Walmart, 38 spl. can only be found at the local ranges where it's between 20 and 22 dollars per box depending on the range. That is a big difference in cost, enough that for the past year I've spent almost all of my revolver time shooting the 40 S&W from my 610.

As for stopping power, if you go purely by the numbers the 9mm does have a significant advantage over the 38 spl. Most 9mm SD ammo's list a muzzle energy of around 300 ft.lbs and the 9mm +P can hit 400 ft.lbs. Compare the 38 spl. at about 200 ft.lbs. and the 38 +P at about 250 ft.lbs. and the difference is pretty obvious. The simple truth is that the 9mm does have a distinct advantage in energy over the 38 spl., enough so that the standard 38 spl. doesn't even make Minor in IDPA classifications. This increase in energy will result in better penetration performance from the 9mm. However, in actual defense use it probably won't matter too much because a well placed 38 has proven effective for a very long time and I believe that it's still an effective caliber.

IMO it's time that a new and more powerful classification of 38 spl. was introduced to the market at a power level similar to the 9mm. Basically, we need to start asking the ammunition makers to start marketing the old 38/44 ammo using modern bullets and loaded to energy levels similar to the 9mm ammunitions. Most of the guns that are actively being used are late model 38 spl. guns with metalurgy vastly superior to the antiques in use when this caliber was introduced.

 

[WC145]

If your 60 doesn't have a J-magnum frame then a 940 cylinder should fit. All you would need to do is have it fitted to your gun then, as Scooter pointed out, you could just swap them when you wanted. If it has the J-magnum frame you would have to have the cylinder rechambered because a 940 cyl won't fit. Using a seperate cyl shouldn't affect the value of your gun, if anything it would make it a bit more desirable since you could sell it as a package.

If you opt to have it recambered you should know that they don't cut them to 9x19, they cut them to 9x23 and machine the cylinder face to accept moonclips. Moonclips are a must because the cases will not headspace on the case mouth. Because the chambers are cut to 9x23 you can shoot .38 Supers out of a converted gun, as well as 9x19, 9x21, 9mm Largo, etc.

Once rechambered shooting .38's doesn't work so hot. Standard pressure ammo bulges the cases and they stick and +P ammo splits the cases. This is another reason a seperate cylinder is a good way of doing it.

Accuracy really isn't an issue. I have a 360J that has been rechambered and I haven't noticed any appreciable loss of accuracy shooting 9mm vs .38spl. That one to two thousands of an inch apparently doesn't count for much. Several others here have converted guns and have had similar experiences.

Ballistically, the 9mm beats the .38spl out of a 2" barrel, it is a much more efficient round from a short barrel. I chronographed several 9mm loads using a Taurus 905 and several .38spl loads using a S&W 637. Here are the results:

Taurus 905 9mm
WWB 115gr FMJ - 1096fps
MagTech 115gr FMJ - 1057fps
MagTech 115gr JHP +P - 1098fps
Federal 115gr JHP +P+ - 1174fps

S&W 637 .38spl
Federal 110gr HydraShok - 873fps
WWB 130gr FMJ - 689fps
WW 125gr JHP +P - 873fps

So, converting to 9mm would be cheaper to shoot, ballistically superior, and certainly accurate enough for plinking, range work, and self defense. On the other hand the conversion is expensive ($225-$250), moonclips are required (not a bod thing, IMO), and you would no longer be able to shoot .38spl. If you choose to buy a 940 cyl you still have the cost of the cyl itself plus the cost to have it fitted. If you can't find one then you could buy a spare .38cyl and have it converted and fitted but your adding the cost of the cyl and fitting to the price of the conversion.

You could also buy a 940, they run in the $600-$750 range these days, or a Taurus 905, which are in the $350 range but quality is a gamble.

All of that being said, I love my 9mm 360J. I carry it as a BUG or primary almost everday and have for going on two years. It's a great carry gun - lightweight (13oz), accurate, and reliable - and it hasn't given me a bit of trouble.

If you choose to go the conversion route I can recommend Pinnacle High Performance, they did my gun, and TK Customs, they've done a number of guns for folks here and I've never heard a bad word about their work.

 

[Palmetto Sharpshooter]

There's a 940 for sale on this forum (not mine).
http://smith-wessonforum.com/guns-sale-trade/157886-smith-940-1-a.html

 

[Bullseye Smith]

Well if you do do the conversion you will be able to shoot 9mm, 38 super, 9x23 out of it. To me I like the 9mm in a revolver and the 38 super. Read this:

MOONCLIP CONVERSIONS-
*Lathe turned for a smooth clean finish!*





(S&W 7-shot L-frame shown)

*Titanium cylinders can be cut for moonclips!

******************

* MULTI-caliber conversions*

*Titanium/alloy cylinders
cannot be Multi-caliber
converted*

*S&W 6-shot L-frame cylinders
Rechamber to 9x23 and shoot-
9mm, .38 super, & 9x23!
$250.00

*Ruger GP100-$255.00

*S&W 6-Shot K-frame
$250.00

*S&W 5-shot .38 caliber
J-Frames
rechamber to 9mm!
$225.00
(I will not do this conversion on older pinned framed .38's.)

*Ruger SP101-$230.00

(includes moonclip conversion)
Moonclips available @ TKcustom

*In most cases with S&W Revolvers, a new cylinder can be fit to the frame in order to take advantage of all calibers!*

*8-Shot PC 627's to,
9x23, .38 super, & 9mm
$275.00
(Gets re-cut for .38super clips)

**In regard to the caliber conversions, I do not recommend shooting .38/.357 case's in the cylinder once this conversion is done. The cases will fire form to the 9x23 case dimensions and they will most likely stick in the cylinder.

They will shoot, but they will probably stick.
Moonclips and a conversion produce a clean and useful alteration making your revolver easier and quicker to reload for competition, defense, hunting & recreation.


Smith & Wesson,
J-Frame 5 Shot .38/.357
K-Frame 6 Shot .38/.357
L-Frame 581,681,586,686, 686 plus,.357's
696 5 Shot .44Spl
N-Frame 27/28, 57/657, 29, 629, & 625 LC.
X-Frame 500, & 460
$80.00
(.45 LC cylinders can be cut to shoot both ACP and LC)

*S&W recessed cylinders $100.00



Ruger, SP101, GP100, Security & Speed -six, .38/.357, Redhawk & Super Redhawk, .44, .45LC, .454, .480,
*The .454 conversion can allow you to shoot .45acp, .45LC and .454 Casull in a single conversion. $85.00



Colt, Anaconda .44, .45LC, Trooper & Python .38/.357 - $85.00



Taurus, 8-shot .38/.357 $85.00
7-shot .38/.357
5-Shot .38/.357 Small Frame
5-shot .45 Colt converted to .45 ACP


With a standard moonclip conversion you will still be able to shoot without using the moonclips.
On competition guns where there is a larger and deeper chamfer there is always the possibility of a light hit due to the case, head spacing off of the area that has been chamfered. I highly recommend using the moonclips during competition shooting.
* Other conversions may be available, contact me for availability.

*
* Most conversions can be made by simply shipping the cylinder!


Return priority shipping for a cylinder is $7.00 and $1.00 for each additional cylinder.


**All Moonclips and Moonclip accessories are available at TK Custom
Pinnacle High Performance is a truly custom pistolsmith shop. This one-man shop operated by owner and pistolsmith Mark Hartshorne is located at the foot of the Blue Mountain in beautiful Kempton Pennsylvania. Specializing in truly custom handguns, all work is performed to your needs, requirements, and specifications after thorough consultation.

I encourage you to call and discuss any custom work with me over the phone. This will give you faster and more detailed answers to any questions you may have. Please refrain from sending long drawn out emails requiring "novel" length answers.
Monday thru Friday...9am -4pm est. 610-285-4392.

 

[RightWinger]

would the cylinder of a 642 fit in a 60-7??...I might be able to get a 642 cylinder for cheap.......

 

[Bullseye Smith]

Smith has a 940 cylinder for $124 bucks that will fit it.

http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore/SmWesson2/upload/other/RevPartsList_Retail.pdf

 

[WC145]

Smith has a 940 cylinder for $124 bucks that will fit it.

http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore/SmWesson2/upload/other/RevPartsList_Retail.pdf

IMO, this would be the way to go. You get a 9x19 specific cylinder plus you don't hurt the value/originality of your gun. If you buy the 940 cylinder it may need to be fit to your gun, Pinnacle can do it for you so you'll be able to swap between .38 and 9mm whenever you feel like it. Plus the whole job, inc the cyl, will probably cost less than a conversion.

 

[David Sinko]

Comparing my own Models 940 and 60-7 side by side it is clear that the cylinders will not simply interchange. The 940 cylinder is approximately 1.515" long and the 60-7 cylinder is approximately 1.535" long. Headspacing is also slightly different for the rimmed and rimless cartridges.

Dave Sinko

 

[Stainz]

Semi-auto ammo in a round gun? Nev'r hear'd of sech!!

Well... no time to dally - need to load some more moonclips for my 625JM!!

I would buy a 9 mm revolver - if S&W still made one. What was wrong with the 940??

Stainz

 

[stiab]

4. If converted, can I shoot 38 super out of it?

You can already shoot .38 Super out of it without any conversion, although I am not recommending you do that. Most modern S&W and Colt .38 Special revolvers will chamber and shoot factory .38 Super made by Winchester (both the 130 grain FMJ and 125 grain ST) and Magtech. Other ammo brands I have tried will not work.

 

[kpm]

Smith has a 940 cylinder for $124 bucks that will fit it.

http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore/SmWesson2/upload/other/RevPartsList_Retail.pdf

Does anyone know if this is a assembly or just the bare cylinder? I am trying to work out delivery on a no dash model 60 and this seems like something I would like.
Thanks.

 

[Bullseye Smith]

Does anyone know if this is a assembly or just the bare cylinder? I am trying to work out delivery on a no dash model 60 and this seems like something I would like.
Thanks.

Call and ask them, I would say it is everything but the extractor rod.

 

[pred]

As long as you are looking at a NON Magnum J frame you should be fine.
Why not do what makes you happy?
I have done the conversion to a model 60, But didnt change out the barrel.
Here's a model 36 which I went all the way and got a 940 barrel, Had it reamed so I could fire 9mm, 38 Super and 9X23 (Handful) and then swapped out an old 940 barrel making a odd Pinto model 36/940.
It's as accurate as a 38 special only.

Do what makes you happy!
Peter