wildsailer
Member
i have a 1917 model from our brazillion returns. what outher calibers/models were built on the n frame ?
thanks for your time!
thanks for your time!
could i have some history of the n frame
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Windsailer,
This is an excerpt from another site.
Hope it helps.
A Brief overwief of the history and the present of the S&W "N" (large) frame revolvers
The N-frame revolvers were the biggest double action ones, that were manufactured by Smith & Wesson conpany. The history of the N-frames began in 1908, with the introduction of the New Century Hand Ejector revolver, chambered for then-new .44 S&W Special cartridge. The gun, also known as a "Triple Lock" model, featured additional cylinder lock at the cylinder crane, plus two standart locks at the front and rear ends of the cylinder axis/ejector rod. Another feature was the enclosed ejector rod (underbarrel lug). The frame was bigger and heavier than the K-frame Hand Ejector, allowing to use larger caliber ammunition. The trigger action was similar to .38 caliber Hand Ejectors, as well as the sights.
In the 1915 the S&W got rid off the Triple Lock feature, as a time-consuming and cost-adding. The underbarrel lug also was removed. After the beginning of the World War One, folowing the demand of the US Army in the sidearms, the S&W rechambered its N-framed second model for US GI .45ACP cartridge. As the .45ACP was rimmles round, the gun should be loaded with ammunition in half-moon clips for proper case extraction. each clip can hold 3 rounds and also speed up loading. These guns were issued to US troops as S&W Model of 1917 revolvers, along with the Colts (issued under the same designation of M1917).
In the mid-1920s came the third model of the N-frame, that brought back the underbarrel lug. In the 1929 S&W developed new round, .38 High Velocity (.38HV) - a heated-up version of the .38 S&W Special. Since this round was unsafe to fire in the K-framed M&P revolvers, S&W team rebarreled the N-framed revolver for .38-caliber (actually, .355in), and installed a heat-treated cylinder that could hold 6 rounds of either .38HV or .38Spl rounds. The gun was named 38/44 Heavy Duty (Model 20, since 1956). Similar model with ajustable sights was called the .38/44 Outdoorsman (model 22).
The development of the .38HV cartridge (also known as .38/44) and the Heavy Duty revolver led to the invention of the .357 magnum round - a lenghtened version of the .38HV. The only reason for case lenghtening was to avoid chambering hot amunition into guns that were not designed for such ammo. The first revolvers in the .357magnum by S&W were similar to .38/44's, except for the longer cylinder. Since the 1956, this model received the designation Model 27. During 1980's, the Model 27 was replaced by its stainless steel version, model 627. Currently, model 627 is offered in limited numbers from S&W Performance Shop, with standart 6 round cylinders or with "high capacity" 8 rounds unfluted cylinders. A "budget" version of the Model 27, model 28, originally known as "Highway Patrolman", was very popular police sidearm in the USA during the 1950's-60's. The Model 28 difered form the Model 27 mostly by having less "luxury" finish, while maitaining almost the same strenght, reliability and accuracy.
During 1920's-50's S&W also developed some target models in .44spl, that differed from standart ones by having ajustable sights (post-1956 guns also known as Model 24's), and in 1950s S&W introduced target revolvers chamvered in .45ACP, using same half-moon clips as M1917's. These models are known as Model 25's, and currently are in limited production by S&W Performance Shop.
In the mid-1950s, folllowing the demand from the hunters and shooters in the more powerful cartridge/gun, S&W and Remington developed the pair that for couple of decades became the most powerful handgun/cartridge combo in the world. namely, these were .44 remington Magnum cartridge and S&W .44 Magnum revolver, later renamed in the model 29. Back in the 1980's the model 29 was replaced by its stainless steel version, the Model 629, that is still in production. Most common versions are model 629 standart with old-style, short underbarrel lugs, or 629 "Classic" models with full-lenght, heavier underbarrel lugs. All variant of the model 629 featured ajustable sights.
In the 1967, the S&W and Remington decided to introducea gun/ammo combination that will fill the gap between .357mag and .44mag guns. The result was the .41 remington magnum cartridge and the S&W Models 57 and 58 revolvers. Model 58 featured standart N-frame with fixed sights, and was intended for police and state troopers use. Model 57 featured fixed sights. However, these guns did not catch the market well, mostly because these were still too powerful (with too big recoil and muzzle blast) for many law officers. The stainless steel of the model 57, the Model 657, is still being manufactured by S&W.
With the introduction of the new, powerful pistol cartridge, 10 mm auto, S&W began to manufacture the Model 610 - 6-round revolver, that should be loaded with ammunition in full- or half-moon clips. As with other 6xx serties revolvers, Model 610 featured stainless steel construction and ajustable sights.
This is an excerpt from another site.
Hope it helps.
A Brief overwief of the history and the present of the S&W "N" (large) frame revolvers
The N-frame revolvers were the biggest double action ones, that were manufactured by Smith & Wesson conpany. The history of the N-frames began in 1908, with the introduction of the New Century Hand Ejector revolver, chambered for then-new .44 S&W Special cartridge. The gun, also known as a "Triple Lock" model, featured additional cylinder lock at the cylinder crane, plus two standart locks at the front and rear ends of the cylinder axis/ejector rod. Another feature was the enclosed ejector rod (underbarrel lug). The frame was bigger and heavier than the K-frame Hand Ejector, allowing to use larger caliber ammunition. The trigger action was similar to .38 caliber Hand Ejectors, as well as the sights.
In the 1915 the S&W got rid off the Triple Lock feature, as a time-consuming and cost-adding. The underbarrel lug also was removed. After the beginning of the World War One, folowing the demand of the US Army in the sidearms, the S&W rechambered its N-framed second model for US GI .45ACP cartridge. As the .45ACP was rimmles round, the gun should be loaded with ammunition in half-moon clips for proper case extraction. each clip can hold 3 rounds and also speed up loading. These guns were issued to US troops as S&W Model of 1917 revolvers, along with the Colts (issued under the same designation of M1917).
In the mid-1920s came the third model of the N-frame, that brought back the underbarrel lug. In the 1929 S&W developed new round, .38 High Velocity (.38HV) - a heated-up version of the .38 S&W Special. Since this round was unsafe to fire in the K-framed M&P revolvers, S&W team rebarreled the N-framed revolver for .38-caliber (actually, .355in), and installed a heat-treated cylinder that could hold 6 rounds of either .38HV or .38Spl rounds. The gun was named 38/44 Heavy Duty (Model 20, since 1956). Similar model with ajustable sights was called the .38/44 Outdoorsman (model 22).
The development of the .38HV cartridge (also known as .38/44) and the Heavy Duty revolver led to the invention of the .357 magnum round - a lenghtened version of the .38HV. The only reason for case lenghtening was to avoid chambering hot amunition into guns that were not designed for such ammo. The first revolvers in the .357magnum by S&W were similar to .38/44's, except for the longer cylinder. Since the 1956, this model received the designation Model 27. During 1980's, the Model 27 was replaced by its stainless steel version, model 627. Currently, model 627 is offered in limited numbers from S&W Performance Shop, with standart 6 round cylinders or with "high capacity" 8 rounds unfluted cylinders. A "budget" version of the Model 27, model 28, originally known as "Highway Patrolman", was very popular police sidearm in the USA during the 1950's-60's. The Model 28 difered form the Model 27 mostly by having less "luxury" finish, while maitaining almost the same strenght, reliability and accuracy.
During 1920's-50's S&W also developed some target models in .44spl, that differed from standart ones by having ajustable sights (post-1956 guns also known as Model 24's), and in 1950s S&W introduced target revolvers chamvered in .45ACP, using same half-moon clips as M1917's. These models are known as Model 25's, and currently are in limited production by S&W Performance Shop.
In the mid-1950s, folllowing the demand from the hunters and shooters in the more powerful cartridge/gun, S&W and Remington developed the pair that for couple of decades became the most powerful handgun/cartridge combo in the world. namely, these were .44 remington Magnum cartridge and S&W .44 Magnum revolver, later renamed in the model 29. Back in the 1980's the model 29 was replaced by its stainless steel version, the Model 629, that is still in production. Most common versions are model 629 standart with old-style, short underbarrel lugs, or 629 "Classic" models with full-lenght, heavier underbarrel lugs. All variant of the model 629 featured ajustable sights.
In the 1967, the S&W and Remington decided to introducea gun/ammo combination that will fill the gap between .357mag and .44mag guns. The result was the .41 remington magnum cartridge and the S&W Models 57 and 58 revolvers. Model 58 featured standart N-frame with fixed sights, and was intended for police and state troopers use. Model 57 featured fixed sights. However, these guns did not catch the market well, mostly because these were still too powerful (with too big recoil and muzzle blast) for many law officers. The stainless steel of the model 57, the Model 657, is still being manufactured by S&W.
With the introduction of the new, powerful pistol cartridge, 10 mm auto, S&W began to manufacture the Model 610 - 6-round revolver, that should be loaded with ammunition in full- or half-moon clips. As with other 6xx serties revolvers, Model 610 featured stainless steel construction and ajustable sights.
Art Doc
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
I think your Brazilian (wow, that's a lot more than a million isn't it?) is actually called the 1937 Model.
There have been many, many models and calibers built on the N frame.
There have been many, many models and calibers built on the N frame.
Jack Flash
Member
From a Roy Jinks letter in response to my request for information regarding my Brazilian Contract revolver:
Later in the letter, he refers to it as:
Later in the letter, he refers to it as:
handejector
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Correct, Jack.
The Brazilians MAY have referred to it as the Mod 1937, but the factory never did.
They are all 1917's.
The "Mod 1937" stuff started on the net.......
Also-
there are some notable errors in the long "history" above, but it might give the OP the general view he wants.
The Brazilians MAY have referred to it as the Mod 1937, but the factory never did.
They are all 1917's.
The "Mod 1937" stuff started on the net.......
Also-
there are some notable errors in the long "history" above, but it might give the OP the general view he wants.
Yep, one that jumps out at me is that the reason for the elimination of the third lock and barrel shroud was a requirment of the British .455 WWI contract as neither was useful in trench warfare.
m.
handejector
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You are correct, but time and cost also figured into the equation.
The SCSW, 3rd edition, shows that the Triple Lock was also available in .44 Russian, .44-40, .38-40, .45 S&W Special, .450 Eley, and .45 Colt. A few were built in .22 LR.
The M25-5 was chambered in .45 Colt also.
The M25-5 was chambered in .45 Colt also.
handejector
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I wonder about that 22 thing.
I've heard of a converted gun that was sleeved, and I wonder if that led to the statement.
Anybody ever seen a 22 TL?
Art Doc
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
Huh. So where did the 1937 come from? I thought they were made that year to fill the contract. If S&W called them 1917s then that's the correct term but... if they were made in 1937 and were different from the original 1917 guns (stocks, markings, etc) then is seems proper to me to refer to them as a separate model.
But then, what do I Know?
But then, what do I Know?
handejector
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The guns purchased by Brazil in 37 are simply Commercial 1917's right out of the catalog.
Absolutely no differences in grips, finish, or anything else besides the Brazilian crest on the sideplate.
Is your Utah Hwy Patrol mag a special model, or just a Reg Mag with a special marking?
Lee, I have never seen a .22 TL either but I have read that 12 where produced. I have also read that there was a story run in the 50's in Guns and Ammo or American Rifleman on one but again never seen it. I would love to feel the weight of one.
Tim
Tim
DGNY
Member
N History
Regarding the Brazilians - it would be easy to put model 1937 to them - last one I saw said 1937 plainly under the crest on sideplate. Not all buyers are students of the nomenclature, for sure.
These "N "S&Ws are true icons. Maybe not so much as Colts 1873s, but I think sometimes we underestimate them as objets.
Regards,
Dyson
Regarding the Brazilians - it would be easy to put model 1937 to them - last one I saw said 1937 plainly under the crest on sideplate. Not all buyers are students of the nomenclature, for sure.
These "N "S&Ws are true icons. Maybe not so much as Colts 1873s, but I think sometimes we underestimate them as objets.
Regards,
Dyson
Jack Flash
Member
I don't.
Not to take anything away from the Colt SAA and it's role in American history, but as a shooting machine, the N-Frame S&W is much, much better. Don't believe me, look at the writings of Elmer Keith.
bmg60
Member
history of the N frame 44 models
Hi
here is a handout I did for one of my displays it give some information on N frames from 1908 thru 1958.
jim fisher
HISTORY OF THE SMITH & WESSON
HAND EJECTOR 44 CALIBER REVOLVERS
FROM 1908 THRU 1958
The production of the large frame hand ejector models begin in 1907 with the 1st Model or Triple lock also called New Century Model of 1908. Calibers offered were 44 Special, 44/40 Winchester, 44 Russian, 455 Mark II, 38-40 and 45 S&W Special. It is reported than 23 were manufactured in 45 Long Colt 1226 manufactured in .450 Eley and also a small quantity in 22 Long Rifle. Records indicate that 13,753 were manufactured in 44 Special. Barrel lengths offered were 4, 5,
6 ½ and 7 ½ in Nickel and Blue with Target and Fixed sights. Target sights were not very common and are considered to be rare. This revolver was manufactured with a 5 screw frame and a shrouded extractor rod with a third locking point at the crane, thereby making this the triple lock system.
Total production was 15,375 revolvers manufactured from
1907 to 1915.
The 44 Hand Ejector 2nd Model begin production in 1915
with the major change being the elimination of the third locking point and the shrouded extractor rod. Calibers offered were 44 Special, 45 Colt, 38-40, and 44-40 Winchester.
Factory records show that 565 revolvers were build in 44-40 caliber. Barrel lengths were 6 ½ standard with some 5 inch and 4 inch made. The finish was Nickel or Blue with Nickel being only about 10 percent of production. Target sights were an option and are considered to be rare. Total manufactured was 17510 from 1915 to 1940. The serial number range was 15376 to as high as 60000 ranges.
The 44 Hand Ejector 3rd Model began production in 1926
with the major change being the shrouded extractor rod housing back in production. The caliber offered was 44 Special only. Barrel lengths were 5 standard with some 6 ½ inch and 4 inch made. The finish was Nickel or Blue with Nickel being only about 10 percent of production. Target sights were an option and are considered to be rare. Less than 200 were made with target sights. Total manufactured was 4976 from 1926 to 1941. The serial number range was 28858 to 61412.
The 44 Hand Ejector 3rd Model (Postwar-Transitional) began production in 1946 with the major change being the new slide-activated hammer block and the adding of an S to the serial number. Barrel lengths were 5 standard with some
6 ½ inch and 4 inch made. The finish was Blue. Target sights were an option and are considered to be rare. Less than 25 were made with target sights. Total manufactured was 1473 from 1946 to 1949. The serial number range was S-62248 to
S-72000.
The 44 Hand Ejector 4th Model Military Model (Model of 1950 "Pre Model 21") began production in 1950 with the major change being the new short action and the new hammer block. Barrel lengths were 6 ½, 5 and 4 inch. The finish was Blue or Nickel. The 6 ½ inch barrel length was scarce. Not many were made. Total manufactured was 1200 from 1950 to 1966. The serial number range was S-75000 to S-26300.
The 44 Hand Ejector 4th Model Target (Model of 1950 "Pre Model 24") began production in 1950 with the major change being the new short action and the new hammer block. Barrel length was 6 ½ standard with limited production of 4 inch and 5 inch models. Finish was Blue with Nickel being a Special Order. Total manufactured was 5050 from 1950 to 1966. The serial number range was S-75000 to S-26300.
Hi
here is a handout I did for one of my displays it give some information on N frames from 1908 thru 1958.
jim fisher
HISTORY OF THE SMITH & WESSON
HAND EJECTOR 44 CALIBER REVOLVERS
FROM 1908 THRU 1958
The production of the large frame hand ejector models begin in 1907 with the 1st Model or Triple lock also called New Century Model of 1908. Calibers offered were 44 Special, 44/40 Winchester, 44 Russian, 455 Mark II, 38-40 and 45 S&W Special. It is reported than 23 were manufactured in 45 Long Colt 1226 manufactured in .450 Eley and also a small quantity in 22 Long Rifle. Records indicate that 13,753 were manufactured in 44 Special. Barrel lengths offered were 4, 5,
6 ½ and 7 ½ in Nickel and Blue with Target and Fixed sights. Target sights were not very common and are considered to be rare. This revolver was manufactured with a 5 screw frame and a shrouded extractor rod with a third locking point at the crane, thereby making this the triple lock system.
Total production was 15,375 revolvers manufactured from
1907 to 1915.
The 44 Hand Ejector 2nd Model begin production in 1915
with the major change being the elimination of the third locking point and the shrouded extractor rod. Calibers offered were 44 Special, 45 Colt, 38-40, and 44-40 Winchester.
Factory records show that 565 revolvers were build in 44-40 caliber. Barrel lengths were 6 ½ standard with some 5 inch and 4 inch made. The finish was Nickel or Blue with Nickel being only about 10 percent of production. Target sights were an option and are considered to be rare. Total manufactured was 17510 from 1915 to 1940. The serial number range was 15376 to as high as 60000 ranges.
The 44 Hand Ejector 3rd Model began production in 1926
with the major change being the shrouded extractor rod housing back in production. The caliber offered was 44 Special only. Barrel lengths were 5 standard with some 6 ½ inch and 4 inch made. The finish was Nickel or Blue with Nickel being only about 10 percent of production. Target sights were an option and are considered to be rare. Less than 200 were made with target sights. Total manufactured was 4976 from 1926 to 1941. The serial number range was 28858 to 61412.
The 44 Hand Ejector 3rd Model (Postwar-Transitional) began production in 1946 with the major change being the new slide-activated hammer block and the adding of an S to the serial number. Barrel lengths were 5 standard with some
6 ½ inch and 4 inch made. The finish was Blue. Target sights were an option and are considered to be rare. Less than 25 were made with target sights. Total manufactured was 1473 from 1946 to 1949. The serial number range was S-62248 to
S-72000.
The 44 Hand Ejector 4th Model Military Model (Model of 1950 "Pre Model 21") began production in 1950 with the major change being the new short action and the new hammer block. Barrel lengths were 6 ½, 5 and 4 inch. The finish was Blue or Nickel. The 6 ½ inch barrel length was scarce. Not many were made. Total manufactured was 1200 from 1950 to 1966. The serial number range was S-75000 to S-26300.
The 44 Hand Ejector 4th Model Target (Model of 1950 "Pre Model 24") began production in 1950 with the major change being the new short action and the new hammer block. Barrel length was 6 ½ standard with limited production of 4 inch and 5 inch models. Finish was Blue with Nickel being a Special Order. Total manufactured was 5050 from 1950 to 1966. The serial number range was S-75000 to S-26300.
OP
wildsailer
Member
thanks for your response this was informitive
The Brazilians were also made in 1946, made up of parts left over from WW1. I have one with a ship date of April 1946.
