New To Forum, I have a gun.... 357 Magnum Transitional Postwar

Looks nice to me, but I don't know even close to what the experts do here. So to my untrained eyes it looks like a really nice gun. So it's really nice to have experts here to help out so we don't get burned too bad. Really nice find for your second smith&wesson. Also, would it help to tell if the barrel was cut by having a good picture of the front of it? I would like to know what to look for on a shortened barrel.
 
Last edited:
Thanks. I will post more as I find out exactly what it is. Maybe it has been worked on. But how likely is it that it has not been?

You guys should have some opinions on that part. Page 135 and 153 in the 3rd edition Smith and Wesson book is where I referenced the info from..

Thank you all.
 
Thanks. I will post more as I find out exactly what it is. Maybe it has been worked on. But how likely is it that it has not been?

You guys should have some opinions on that part. Page 135 and 153 in the 3rd edition Smith and Wesson book is where I referenced the info from..

Thank you all.

????????? Is that it?
 
Non-recessed cylinder,satin blue finish.I believe you have a Transitional 38/44 outdoorsman that has been chopped to a 3.5 inch.I hope you don't have alot invested in the gun.Its a 400.00 gun at best.
 
Looks nice to me, but I don't know even close to what the experts do here. So to my untrained eyes it looks like a really nice gun. So it's really nice to have experts here to help out so we don't get burned too bad. Really nice find for your second smith&wesson. Also, would it help to tell if the barrel was cut by having a good picture of the front of it? I would like to know what to look for on a shortened barrel.

There are no rollmarks on the barrel.They have been cut off.
 
My additional $0.04 (inflation you know...)

Thanks. I will post more as I find out exactly what it is. Maybe it has been worked on. But how likely is it that it has not been?

ACK:

I really like the looks of your gun. I do not consider myself an expert, but I own a bunch of pre and post war N-Frame and K-Frame 357 Magnums. I have read all of the articles, books, histories and other information that I can find about N-Frame 357 Magnums. I also own a handful of transitional 38/44's (both Outdoorsman's and Heavy Duties). I have several other early post war transitional guns, and I have never seen one in the post war transitional era that did not have roll marks on the barrel. That in and of itself is a 98% to 99% dead give away to me that your gun has been altered. The fact that all of the numbers match is NOT surprising to me. I'd be willing to bet all $1.00 of my betting money ($1.00 is my max betting limit) that if you spent the $50 to get your gun lettered, you would find that it left the factory as a 38/44 Outdoorsman (see page 156 of SCSW 3rd for a description of the Transitional Outdoorsman). It probably shipped sometime in early 1947. At that time, the 357's were in high demand, but S&W was not producing any, or at least not very many (142 or so). Shooters wanted the 357's very badly and many of the early post war 38/44's had their cylinders bored to accept the 357 Magnum round. I have an early transitional 38/44 Heavy Duty that was bored for 357 and "gunsmith" stamped "357" on the right side of the barrel to reflect the same.

Also, the 38/44 Outdoorsman were primarily configured for hunting and target work so there were very few shipped with barrels shorter than 6.5". So...if a shooter wanted a short barreled adjustable rear sight, ramped front sight 357, but he could not beg, buy or steal one (because there were not any available), he could get an Outdoorsman, take it to his gunsmith, have him shorten the barrel; remove, modify, and replace the Patridge front sight; ream the cylinder charging holes to accept 357 Magnum ammunition; and remove the roll marks from the sides of the barrel. The roll marks were probably removed, as the standard Outdoorsman roll marks would not be centered, and may have been partially cut off, on the shortened 3.5" barrel and would not reflect that the gun had been "converted" to a 357. I am not sure why the ejector rod was changed, but if there was something wrong with it, it is most likely that the "gunsmith" would not have been able to obtain a replacement large knob rod from the factory, as those rods were phased out shortly after the end of the war.

With all of the above, I think that your gun has some cool, period appropriate customizations that appear to be well done and make your gun a great example of what many hand gunners wanted in the late 1940's and early 1950's. Unfortunatly, in general the above modifications (if in fact they are modifications - I know that you continue to hold out hope:o) significantly decreases the collector value.

[EDITED: I see while I was typing you received a couple of indications of value in the $400 range. I think that that is in the ball park, but I may pay a little more for the cool factor. HOWEVER, I would only shoot 38 S&W Special's through that gun as the 38/44 cylinders were not hardened or certified for the power of the 357 magnum load.]

Like I said, I'm not an expert, but you asked for and have now received my candid, frank observations of your revolver.
 
Last edited:
Non-recessed cylinder,satin blue finish.I believe you have a Transitional 38/44 outdoorsman that has been chopped to a 3.5 inch.I hope you don't have alot invested in the gun.Its a 400.00 gun at best.

I agree w/ the experts that this gun is not original.
Having said that, the gun could be parted out and sold piece by piece for atleast $600.
I'm a Gambler and I'd bet that this gun wouldn't last 15 minutes in the classifieds at $800 as is - the cool Factor is thru the roof.

ACK95 - thanks for sharing.......neat gun!
 
That is a lot of information, and I am willing to bet that you guys are right. Yeah..... I hold a small incling of hope, but that is why I came to the source, as my buddy told me I would find most all the information I needed here! And...... I have! You are probably correct about it being a 38/44, and the information makes a ton of sense that you posted.

I did ask, and I wanted to receive info! I am not familiar with roll marks, so I am going to learn about them, so I can be more informed for this and future ventures.

As far as what I am into the gun..... I am in it right enough, even if you were to call it a walmart special made by daisy.... I would still be money ahead....

This forum seems to have a lot of very nice and knowledgeable people here, so I am going to continue my research and read more, now about the .38/44 guns. The history and how these things come about is neat in itself, and I may still just keep the gun regardless, just cause of its history and potential background of how it may have became an altered .357.

I think it is worth my time and 50 bones to get a letter on the gun just so I can say I have it.

Where can I learn about "roll markings" on barrels?

Thanks
Tony
 
Tony, there's a book by Robert Neal and Roy Jinks called Smith & Wesson: 1857-1945 that has detailed appendices listing the changing patent date blocks you find on S&W gun barrels. Other than patent dates, which do not appear after WWII, barrels usually feature the S&W name on one side and the chambering on the other, usually ending with the abbreviation CTG for cartridge. Some postwar revolvers have model numbers stamped on one side, like Highway Patrolman or Model of 1955. The details of these are best learned by observation.

There are also varying forms of rollmarks on the frames, and the distinctions that can be drawn often allow one to make a fairly accurate guess at a year (or short range of years) of manufacture. Again, there is a bunch of illustrative material in the forum archives.

For .38/44s, check out the website that 1Aspenhill maintains for the Heavy Duty; the link is in the signature to every one of his posts. There is no similar web site for the .38/44 Outdoorsman, which is the adjustable sight version of the Heavy Duty, but lots of people on this forum love that model and you can get good info just by asking a question.

The Outdoorsman is almost always found with a 6.5" barrel. In the prewar years, a few were made with five-inch barrels and gold bead front sights as special orders for famed sharpshooter Ed McGivern. A very few special orders are reported with longer barrels. I don't know of a single Outdoorsman that was ever delivered from the factory with a barrel shorter than five inches, but some here may know of specimens.

Afterthought: I don't know how familiar you are with the entire S&W line, but don't confuse the .38/44 Outdoorsman (which is built on the company's large N frame) with the K-22 Outdoorsman (which is built on the mid-size K-frame). At the time these models were introduced in the early 1930s, each was intended to be a premium target revolver, and each was built on the next larger frame size compared to the .22s and .38s that had been produced previously.
 
Last edited:
Hi
before you spend 50 dollars for a letter call the factory and ask for roy jinks If you give him the serial number he will be able to tell you if it is a Transition 357 or a 38/44 Outdoorsman.
My guess is it is a Outdoorsman cut down.
the outdoorsman and the 357 Transition are all in the 71xxx range.
And I am the keeper of the Data base of the 357 Transition guns.
Jim Fisher
 
Are there any markings on the grip frame?
Bill

Yes I took the grips off at a local gunsmith earlier this evening and had him look it over, and he is fairly puzzled, said it is a very unique piece.

Under the grips there are a couple letters and numbers.

On the left side, towards the bottom front of the grip area there is an "S"

On the right side down at the bottom where the dowel pin is, just in front of it is the letter "B", then in front if it on the other side of the spring is the number "7", and directly below the pin on the right side is a very small number "6".

That is all that is under the grips on the frame.

Thanks
 
Hi
before you spend 50 dollars for a letter call the factory and ask for roy jinks If you give him the serial number he will be able to tell you if it is a Transition 357 or a 38/44 Outdoorsman.
My guess is it is a Outdoorsman cut down.
the outdoorsman and the 357 Transition are all in the 71xxx range.
And I am the keeper of the Data base of the 357 Transition guns.
Jim Fisher

Thank you for that advice Jim. I will be certain to ask for Roy. I greatly appreciate that information,
 
Thank you also DCWilson. I will look at that website as well. I am really enjoying my research, and am learning a lot from all of the responses I am getting.

Great great stuff.

Thanks
Tony
 
Be for warned, it does get pretty addictive, the hunt, research and all that comes with collecting these fine firearms.
 
A belated welcome to you.... And concurrence that this is indeed a desirable and attractive piece. It mimics the general look of the later, and highly admired, Model of 1950 .357 Magnum. Yet it has, apparently, a history of considerable ingenuity in its journey to this present state.

We look forward to your completing the info loop back to this forum when you can glean further details from the source.

As always, should you decide to shoot it, we appreciate range reports. If the gun is tight and the .357 chambering confirmed and cleanly done, I would personally not shrink from present day, ordinary .357 loads [others will clearly differ on that!],

Regards, and thanks for sharing,

Dyson
 
Back
Top