My Transitional N Frames & Questions

[iskra]

I recently acquired the S&W 38/44 Transition Target model shown in the below photos. The hammer has been modified to a pseudo target configuration and it presently wears a trigger shoe. Otherwise I would rate the gun about 95%, this accounting for some blue wear at the muzzle. I seldom look at modified guns, but I have a soft spot for the N frame postwar transitions. At about $600 OTD, it wasn’t a great deal, but it seemed sufficiently uncommon and a potentially restorable specimen. The trigger shoe will come off as soon as I can locate a correct Allen wrench and I do have a the possibility of a good transition trigger if the shoe leaves significant marks. But I am definitely going to need a hammer and I wonder: (1) How scarce are such parts; (2) where I might best inquire and (3) how much I should expect to pay.

My last question is to the practical rarity of this target model. I differentiate ‘practical rarity' as may be suggested by knowledgeable members here, from the statistical rarity based strictly upon production numbers.

For interest, my other transitional N Models are listed below. Except as noted, all are original and in excellent condition or better. ( * previously presented photos in a prior post to this forum.)
Thanks for any information.

My Transitional N Frames:
45 Model of 1917 – 209xxx (non-“S”) prefix.
***
44 Target – S71xxx (*)
44 H/D 6 ½” – S63xxx (*)
44 HD 5” – S68xxx
***
38/44 Target – S71xxx (Only about 'Good')
38/44 Target – S69xxx
38/44 HD 5” – 67xxx (in photo)
38/44 HD 5” – 65xxx
38/44 HD 4” – S63xxx (in red box)

 

[Combat]

I was wondering, could that be a "King" hammer and could it have been shipped that way?

 

[Art Doc]

I'd say $600 for an Outdoorsman was pretty damn good. I see them at $1200+ all the time.

 

[DCWilson]

$600 OTD is a great deal even if you need to replace a hammer.

That looks to me like a standard hammer with a custom-widened hammer spur. King did indeed offer that service, and I imagine other shops could have done the same thing.

Maybe you can get a standard postwar long-action hammer from Poppert's Gun Parts, or Dave Chicoine, or Jack First Gun. You could also ask here in the WTB section; this is the kind of thing some forum members will have in their parts box. Remember that a prewar hammer won't function with the postwar hammer safety block, but I think it is possible to modify a prewar hammer to work with the postwar block.

Have you checked the stocks to see if they number to the gun? The profile looks wrong to me for the late 1940s, and these could have drifted in from a 1950s or even early 1960s N frame. Given the fact that the gun has a target hammer and trigger shoe, it may once have had target stocks that a previous owner kept when he let this gun move on.

 

[rburg]

Lets hear a little more about the 44 Target with the S71,000s serial number. Its almost got to be a 3rd model target, and just about as rare as hen's teeth. How long is the barrel?

 

[iskra]

Belated Conclusion & Thanks!

My greatest apology for not returning sooner to my own thread! A happy matter but one of some urgency intervened. So at this point just a conclusive post concerning the comments.
Re the possibility of a King produced hammer. Room to speculate, but I doubt that the hammer is a King model. It is reasonably executed, but still looks a bit amateurish for his work.
DCWilson, Thank you for the parts suggestion. I will follow up as soon as time permits. Also kudos for being right-on concerning the grips. I finally got around to checking just tonight. The grips appear to bear the number 162991, which would place them later in time just as you suggested. What an eye! As noted above, I agree with your conclusion that the hammer is not aa bit of information concerning my 44 transition target in a new thread, so titled, momentarily.

Thanks to each respondent for the interesting thoughts, positive comments and information!!!
This is a great forum!

 

[Hondo44]

I also feel that it was a great buy. The hammer is nicely executed and I'm sure a great improvement over those skinny pre war styles with fine checkering. But the lack of case colored finish is a giveaway that it wasn't done by one of the professionals, King, Micro, etc. of the time.

Their work is distinctive in shape and finish and usually marked. Here's a Micro stamped example (a little hard to make out) on my targetized 1917:

 

[bettis1]

I think it is a very nice Outdoorsman at a very nice price.

Since no one has raised the issue, I will take a different tact on the hammer and shoe. Those were common modifications on guns of the period and fit the shooting techniques then. I wouldn't change a thing until I shot it a little with them on it. I've got a feeling you may love it as it is. The gun represents its working life just as it is.

If I were buying it from you, I had much rather have it in the condition that the original owner had it than in some "restored" condition that you put it in.

Bob

 

[Hondo44]

I think it is a very nice Outdoorsman at a very nice price.

Since no one has raised the issue, I will take a different tact on the hammer and shoe. Those were common modifications on guns of the period and fit the shooting techniques then. I wouldn't change a thing until I shot it a little with them on it. I've got a feeling you may love it as it is. The gun represents its working life just as it is.

If I were buying it from you, I had much rather have it in the condition that the original owner had it than in some "restored" condition that you put it in.

Bob

I like that advice, even if I got replacement hammer and trigger I wouldn't install them. Just keep for the gun. I'd focus more on getting correct vintage stocks. I might dapple some Oxpho Blue on the hammer shiny spots. It can resemble case color very nicely.

 

[GLL]

Nice gun at a good price !

I would simply leave it as is and shoot it ! (Actually I would remove the trigger shoe and shoot it) ! Several of my transitional guns have modified hammers so it seemed to be a common modification.
Trying to find correct grips will be an expensive quest !

If you are willing I would very much appreciate the serial number for my files. I am also VERY interested in the .38/44 Target you listed with the S 69,000 serial number ! Do you have photos available of that gun?

[email protected]

Jerry

 

[linde]

For interest, my other transitional N Models are listed below. Except as noted, all are original and in excellent condition or better. Thanks for any information.

My Transitional N Frames:
38/44 HD 5” – 67xxx (in photo)
38/44 HD 5” – 65xxx

Being in excellent condition your 5" HDs were probably not law enforcement issue, but I would be very interested in checking the two serial numbers above to see if they were part of the 5" HDs purchased by the Missouri State Highway Patrol.

If you would, please send the serial numbers to me in a PM or email to [email protected] and I will let you know what I find.

Thanks, Russ