Crazy Times with a Thompson, 1969

[Retired W4]

Now I have to relate a story that happened in the summer of 1969 that did not involve 45 tracer ammo I recently posted about, but did involve the communal Thompson SMG our platoon possessed. It was a down day for several of us and I had secured a vehicle for a trip to a small hamlet between the Tay Ninh camp and Tay Ninh city (MWR??). We were preparing for our outside the wire excursion by gathering our personal weapons, which included issue revolvers and the above mentioned Thompson. I was sitting on a cot in the back room of our 25 ID supplied O'club with my hooch mate, Cpt Rick Scheffing, who had the Thompson in hand with the bolt back. Now Rick was an Artillery Officer/Aviator who should have known something about weapons. For some unknown reason he inserted a magazine and pulled the trigger on the "fires from the open bolt" gun. He got off three rounds before he released the trigger! I was completely unprepared for the noise from the gun, which was about 18 inches from my right ear. After recovering from the shock, we got up to survey the damage. Right in front of us was a storage room stacked with cases of beer and soda which the .45 rounds made a mess of. Suddenly it dawned on us that right on the other side of that wall was a small room with a ping pong table. Rick and I ran around to the room to see if anyone was in there. Two ping pong players were spread eagle on the floor thinking it was a ground attack. Luckily, the muzzle rise from the burst only allowed one round to come really close to them. The other two...well a miss is a miss. After apologizing profusely to the pilots on the floor we gather up our other two partners in crime, jumped into the truck and headed to the main gate. The rest of the day was just as crazy as the way it started out, but I will leave all that for another time.

 

[M29since14]

Over the years I've observed that just about everyone who handles guns will make a mistake with them. (Most of us will admit it. Some won't.) Luckily, in most cases I suppose, no one gets hurt and the shooter just ends up with egg on his face. If the shooter is really lucky, we make our "wake up! mistake" when no one is around to be a witness. That's a funny story, but I imagine the ping pong players didn't think so at the time.

 

[SnidelyWhiplash]

Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want. Capt. Scheffing got experienced.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

I have had 3 AD/ND's in my life. Number 2 son was beside me for 2/3. His observation was: The rules of gun safety work! Even when you violate one the other cover you! In my case the muzzle was always pointed in a safe direction!

I have also shot the house sort of on purpose! Was aiming out an open bedroom window at a ground hog in the yard, maybe 15 yards, I forgot to aim high because of the scope and blew the snot out of my pillow! You wouldn't think a 22 Hornet would scatter so many feathers That were under two layers of cloth!

When I owed an full auto open bolt MAC 10, I always went over the bolt/trigger operation with guests before giving them live ammo! We never had AD/ND's with specialty weapons. But I can see how the Thompson happened!

Ivan

 

[6518John]

Capt. Scheffing got experienced.

The Captain would have been standing tall before the man if I had been his Colonel. He would have gotten remedial firearms training in the form of a 20 mile run holding that Thompson over his head too.

 

[Venom6]

Jeff Cooper said that if you handle firearms enough you WILL eventually have an AD. Several historians have written that more people were killed by AD's than by Indians on the wagon trains heading West.

 

[LoboGunLeather]

When leaving Vietnam the first time (1970) I gave a Thompson to one of the Huey pilots we rode with regularly. Young CW2, can't remember his name. He wanted a little something more than his issued .38 Special S&W Model 10 in the event he found himself down in the boonies.

We went to the beach with several magazines of .45ACP, demonstrated all functions, then he familiarized himself with the gun for an hour or so. Back to the hooch, showed him how to break it down for cleaning, reassemble, function test. He intended to have a tote bag made to carry with the buttstock removed in the cockpit.

I remember discussing open-bolt vs. closed-bolt, which he understood from the M60s mounted in the side doors of the Huey. Common procedure for the door gunner and crew chief was to load a belt into the M60 after taking off, and unload the weapon when returning to a friendly location.

Other weapons I've seen with helicopter crews included the M3A1 .45 SMG, M1 Carbine with folding stock, a sawed-off 12-gauge pump shotgun, and a few private-purchase handguns. Non-issued weapons were generally forbidden during my time in Vietnam, but some units made allowances for the helicopter crews (or simply looked the other way).

There was also a common attitude among the troops of "What are they gonna do? Send me to Vietnam? Bend my dog tags?"

I remember a major who made a fuss about weapons frequently. He gave me a lot of grief about carrying a .45 pistol cocked & locked, demanded empty chamber and hammer at half-cock. I always promptly complied in his presence, then went on with business after he found someone else to lecture.

I do remember a few unintentional discharges, some during horse-play, some pure carelessness. M16 fired through the roof of a Huey is not a good idea; that is where the engine, fuel lines, hydraulics and other essentials are located. One young guy found out that a .45 through the top of his boot was not a good thing; the steel mesh in the sole prevented further penetration and the bullet bounced back through his foot causing nasty damage.

Perimeter guard duty at outlying posts was downright dangerous. Rising above the level of your sandbags at night was never a good idea, any moving shape in the darkness was likely to become a target.

A few memories from a long time ago.

 

[DWalt]

I had two ADs. One involved firing a round through my bedroom ceiling from an '03-A3, the other from one of the old thumb trigger Winchester .22 boys' rifles, almost hitting a friend. Those thumb trigger rifles were very dangerous. No safety of any kind.

 

[WardenRoss]

I had my Lieutenant squeeze off a .357 round from his brand new Smith 686, right beside my right ear. He was dry firing it under the pavilion as we were waiting to assemble on the firing line. It took a while to get my hearing back. He said a dirty word and pretty loudly too. At least he was pointed down range at an empty line.



At the end of a practice drill, I had a Special Ops officer squeeze off a .40 from his Glock 23 while he was placing it in the team's transfer lock box. They are supposed to #1. Drop/eject/remove the magazine. #2. Rack the slide (3 times) to eject the chambered round. #3. Squeeze the trigger.

Then the pistol is stacked in the team's lock box that has a long rod. The pistol won't go down the rod (through the trigger guard) unless the trigger is pulled back.

He forgot step #2. The bullet hit the asphalt at a 45° angle, ricocheting around the parking lot. Everyone scattered but was unscathed. He was terminated.



I had an officer playing with his Smith model 64 while sitting on a toilet, squeeze off a .38+P. The bullet made it's trip around the stall a few times before it went into a block wall. "Sir, hate to bother you but I did something real stupid!"



We had stand up riot shotgun racks in the front seat of the cars. One officer managed to snag the trigger on a chambered 870 with the safety off. The buckshot made a clean 2" hole going through the windshield. He was speechless.



I had an inmate transfer officer leave his 870 leaning against the rear bumper of a bus. Of course, he backed over it, then pull forward to further trample it.

Some I that I remember off the top of my head.

 

[S&W Fan]

Bill Jordan made the ultimate mistake too.

 

[Krogen]

Two AD's, ND's actually. Both involved my own mistakes. The comment above about following rules definitely applied in my two cases. One has to break more than one of the rules to produce injury.

The first one was with a Contender in .357 Herrett. Buddy and I were out in the weeds and facing each other flapping our jaws. My Contender was pointed down range during this. Somehow I thumbed the hammer back while the action was open. We went back to shooting and I dropped in a round and snapped the action shut. The hammer dropped and the gun fired - downrange. I tried to get that to happen again with an empty chamber and never could reproduce it. Makes sense that the design precludes a hammer drop without pulling the trigger. But mechanical things malfunction. That why the gun was pointed down range.

The second one was with a Model 29. I had handloaded some of Speer's half-jacket bullets over a load of 296. They were a bit hot, so I pulled them down. I decided to pop the primers rather than deprime live ones. I'd go ahead and deprime them nowadays, but was skittish in the early days. I put on my safety glasses and earmuffs and proceeded to pop the primers with the gun aimed at the basement concrete wall. In one cartridge, the lead slug had come out of the half-jacket leaving the jacket in the case over a full load of 296. Yes, I had looked in the cases. The round in question "looked" like there was no bullet in it. I should have looked with a flashlight to see the primer hole. But I didn't. That jacket flew out of the gun and left a divot in the concrete wall about 3/8" deep and 1 1/2" wide. Just the jacket did that. Again, the gun was pointed in a a direction where the only harm was to a concrete wall.

Thankfully there have been only 2. I know I could commit another one any time. Because of that, correct safety rules are imperative.

 

[AJ]

I loaned a CMP "Correct Grade" M1 Garand to a friend who want a good rifle to shoot military matches. I told him when he was finished shooting the military matches to give me the Garand back as it was a loan. He took it home and was showing it to his granddaughter in his basement. He had an AD and it scared him and the granddaughter. He took it to his gunsmith and sold it to him. Later when I asked for it back he told me that I had given it to him and he had sold it because of the AD. Haven't been real good friends since..........

 

[LoboGunLeather]

I loaned a CMP "Correct Grade" M1 Garand to a friend who want a good rifle to shoot military matches. I told him when he was finished shooting the military matches to give me the Garand back as it was a loan. He took it home and was showing it to his granddaughter in his basement. He had an AD and it scared him and the granddaughter. He took it to his gunsmith and sold it to him. Later when I asked for it back he told me that I had given it to him and he had sold it because of the AD. Haven't been real good friends since..........

Friend? Not the word I would have used.

 

[Retired W4]

Eldest Son ammo

I loaned a CMP "Correct Grade" M1 Garand to a friend who want a good rifle to shoot military matches. I told him when he was finished shooting the military matches to give me the Garand back as it was a loan. He took it home and was showing it to his granddaughter in his basement. He had an AD and it scared him and the granddaughter. He took it to his gunsmith and sold it to him. Later when I asked for it back he told me that I had given it to him and he had sold it because of the AD. Haven't been real good friends since..........

If you ever loan him a gun again give him some SOG "Eldest Son" ammo with it and tell him not to use it around his granddaughter, or anyone else for that matter. Well, that might be a little extreme, but it was just a thought.

 

[jimmyj]

Winchester Model 97s, Winchester Model 12s, Ithaca Model 37s, and Remington Model 10s has been responsible for making sun roofs in many patrol vehicles.

I worked with a new officer fresh from the Army who chose to carry a Colt Model 1911A1 .45acp with full magazine, chamber loaded and hammer at half cock. While waiting for traffic court to start another officer asked to look at the Model 1911A1. the weapon was unloaded passed around and then passed back to the weapon owner. He reloaded the weapon and placed it on a desk top. Another officer accidently bumped the desk and the .45 fired. The 230 grain FMJ bullet hit a brick wall and then ricocheted around the room. No one was hit but, but within a split second the only officer still in the room was the owner of the weapon. Shortly there afterward the Model 1911A1 was replaced with a revolver. Later examinations it was discovered that the sear had a burr on it.

 

[grover99]

Been lucky to never have a AD but one time I was fooling around with a browning machine gun. Think of the one used in WW2 long before the M60 came out. I was going to disassemble it. To do that there is a hole in the back which you stick a screwdriver and turn it about a half turn to remove the firing pin snd spring. Then the back plate slides up and off. The thing was the gun needs to be uncocked and not under spring tension. As soon as I turned that pin it shot out the back with great force cut a nice grove in my hand and stuck in the wood panel across the room. Glad I was not standing in front of it. I would have had to hauled off to the ER to remove firing pin. The Captain would feel I got what I deserved but would hated the paper work.

 

[Farmer17]

My friend Gordon was in the Navy and worked in the engine room of a boat in Vietnam. They got notice to stop a local boat and check it for contraband and he grabbed a Thompson and they boarded the 50 foot boat and they found a few weapons but mostly food and supplies that were to be delivered to the enemy. While standing on deck he sees a rifle stick out from behind a rice crate so he fires full auto at the crate with the Thompson. He sees the rifle fly over the side of the boat and a man comes out with his hands up. He said his shipmates always kidded him that the only thing he shot in the war was a rice crate.

 

[SnidelyWhiplash]

This was some years ago when I was a LEO and firearms instructor. We were at a police range used by several agencies for qualification. In the gun cleaning room was a 9mm hole in the wall over a counter with a Sign over with the name of the responsible agency and "Glock 17" over it.

I asked about what had happened and found out this agency had a woman officer there for qualification. Her Lieutenant apparently wanted to personally show her how to clean her Glock. Most know with a Glock you have to removed the magazine, clear the chamber then pull the trigger to release the sear. This Lieutenant cleared the magazine but didn't clear the chamber before releasing the sear...and BANG! The bullet went right through the wall...through a closet...into the women's bathroom through two stalls then through the outer wall of the building. No one was injured.

The responsible agency wanted to repair the damage but was politely declined to use it as a reminder of what can occur when safety protocols aren't followed.

I followed the path of the bullet...you can see in the women's bathroom where it came through one stall wall through to the next stall...slightly ricocheted following the stall door before going out into the outer wall of the building. If anyone had been using the stall and had been constipated...they wouldn't have been after that.

 

[AJ]

Had some friends that worked in a Police Department in Orange County, Ca. In the locker room were holes in the walls, lockers and the overhead. Each hole was circled with a felt tip with a date and initials inside the circle. I asked what that was all about and was told AD's by the police officers. Scary!!

 

[Old 44 Guy]

Yes, Many years back I put a hole in my Dreamer camper roof with my 30-30. Wife never forgave me.