Stainless slide, and blue/black frame? I have one also, serial TDR96xx, and it's not at all objectionable to shoot. It's outfitted with the real Big Dog delrin grips.
CS9 Needed a Recoil Spring
- Thread starter Ed58
- Start date
That is indeed the numbers that I see however if Smith has stopped production of critical parts what real value does such a gun have?
The money would be far better spent on ammo or a gun that you could also get wear parts to have on hand- wouldn't you agree??
I should have added that the gun I have seen is on Gunjoker-a consignment from likely the third 'owner' located a few states away.
The cost will be significant the risk even greater.
Now if this was a classic Smith pinned wheelie with clear closeups of the cylinder/frame/barrel/ejector and every screw -completely different situation and risk factor.
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raygixxer89
Member
Yup as far as the color combo but mine has the fat curved grips. I can't remember who makes them.
If you have the fat rubber grips with a silver screw on each side, they're OEM from S&W, made by Hogue.
raygixxer89
Member
HOGUE! That was the name I couldn't remember! Getting old is no fun I tell ya! I would love to get a hold of some of those grips like yours. While I like the way the OEM feel, All of my other Smiths have the standard grips and I like to keep things uniform, hehe.
One review raises THE red flag about 3rd gen Smiths in general and the CS9 in particular;
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0HMMbxby0Y[/ame]
if you don't want to watch the entire vid go to 5:30 or so
guess Boris the Blade gives good advice
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lX0MB7pJtKs[/ame]
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0HMMbxby0Y[/ame]
if you don't want to watch the entire vid go to 5:30 or so
guess Boris the Blade gives good advice
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lX0MB7pJtKs[/ame]
All my 3rd gens must be faulty. Literally tens of thousands of rounds through them over the last 22 years (most of it donated by the taxpayers) carried daily, shot weekly - different guns/multiple times - and I broke three parts.
Two mag catches and a side plate. And it took 9K rounds through a 457 to break the side plate - far more than the "average" owner will probably shoot through all their guns.
So, where are all these broken 3rd gen guns at? And what, exactly, is breaking on them? I'm curious. Regards 18DAI
Two mag catches and a side plate. And it took 9K rounds through a 457 to break the side plate - far more than the "average" owner will probably shoot through all their guns.
So, where are all these broken 3rd gen guns at? And what, exactly, is breaking on them? I'm curious. Regards 18DAI
JohnHL
Member
Had to play it at 1.5X to avoid dozing off
I guess the "red flag" is the chafing of recoil spring
guide rod tip?
The spring-loaded tip on recoil spring rod is polymer. It
does the usual 3rd Gen job of retaining the slide lock
axis in frame, by seating in a scooped area on the
slide lock.
Mine had some chafing on the polymer nib as well.
I trimmed it off and haven't seen any recurrence.
Doesn't seem like a problem.
The guy said he'd fired over 1,200 rounds thru
it, and didn't sound old enough to be an orginal
purchaser. No telling how many rounds had been
fired prior to his 1,200, but the pistol appeared to
be functioning properly and reliably, despite the
fuzzy guide rod tip.
On most 3rd Gens, btw, the spring loaded tip is
a polished steel cap, so this doesn't apply to
"3rd gen Smiths in general." Maybe all/only the
Value Line guns use the plastic tip...?
I'd red flag the guy for his disassembly narration--
drop magazine, put on 'fire', and no mention of
checking chamber.
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"Red Flag"?!?
Relax, folks.
Yes, S&W introduced a polymer guide rod plunger for some of the budget models, including the CS guns. Just like they designed polymer disconnectors and mainspring cups in the 90's ... and don't forget the long running ejector depressor plunger.
Back when I first noticed I had a polymer guide rod plunger in my CS45 (bought '99 or 2000?), I called and asked about it with one of the guys at the factory. He said they weren't getting complaints about them in Pistol Repair, but offered to send me a few extra stainless steel plungers if I wanted. Why not, right?
After fiddling with the polymer and the stainless plungers in my CS45 (and later CS9), both of my CS guns are running ... polymer guide rod plungers.
Yes, I noticed some minor abrading and light fuzz at the end of the polymer plungers, similar to what was seem in the video. I just removed it (cut or plucked, depending), and didn't worry about it anymore.
FWIW, I also started letting my recoil springs run out a little longer in the CS45/9's, instead of replacing them in 1000rds (=/-200rds). Of course, I'm shooting them a bit less, too, since I'm no longer working our old LE range and shooting a few times per month.
This reminds me of when I learned one of our guys who owned a CS45, which he used as an off-duty weapon, hadn't replaced his mag or recoil springs since he'd bought the gun ... 10 years ago. Granted, he only shot the gun a couple times a year, but that was kinda outside the then-new mag/recoil spring replacement recommendation S&W was telling its armorers, of every 5 years (left fully loaded) or 5,000 rounds fired.
Prior to that, the company basically just told us to monitor functioning, checking for positive slide stop/slide engagement during live-fire on the firing line, and also at the bench when inspecting empty guns/mags at the bench. This was done by manually racking the slides as fast as possible to see if the mag spring lifted the follower quickly enough to lift the slide stop into the slide's stop notch. We were also told to compare free length of used springs to new springs, and given a broad rule-of-thumb for serviceable free length of working recoil and mag springs.
Anyhow, while this guy with the CS45 wasn't experiencing any feeding or functioning issues with his 10 year old gun and springs, using the various 230gr factory ammo we provided at the range, I recommended he order some new springs. Just to err on the conservative side of owner maintenance practices to help keep his gun running.
My CS45 guide rod & plunger (left) and a TSW guide rod assembly (right). That's the polymer rod plunger I've been running for quite a few years (and many cases of ammo), minus any plastic fuzz I've removed.
More comparison pics of steel and plastic plungers for guide rods.
Now, installing the slide stop lever's pin in the frame is something that ought not be done with excessive force, of course. Unlike the guy in the video, I usually finish putting the slide/barrel on the frame, and then retract the slide until the slide stop notches in the slide and frame align ... and then I either tip the muzzle up, or use the tip of my finger to push the barrel to the rear ... so the barrel lug moves to the rear and clears the frame hole where the slide stop pin is going to be inserted. Tipping the barrel up lets gravity do the work for you. (Grasping the frame so your thumb and web of your hand is under the grip tang of the frame, and your fingers are up and around in front of the rear sight base, let's you squeeze and hold the slide and frame aligned to let the barrel tip and fall back, or you can hold the gun horizontal and push the barrel back, depending on your preference.)
Don't mangle the plastic plunger by trying to push it through the steel barrel lug that's in the way of the pin you're trying to push into the frame hole. Won't work.
Just some thoughts.
Relax, folks.
Yes, S&W introduced a polymer guide rod plunger for some of the budget models, including the CS guns. Just like they designed polymer disconnectors and mainspring cups in the 90's ... and don't forget the long running ejector depressor plunger.
Back when I first noticed I had a polymer guide rod plunger in my CS45 (bought '99 or 2000?), I called and asked about it with one of the guys at the factory. He said they weren't getting complaints about them in Pistol Repair, but offered to send me a few extra stainless steel plungers if I wanted. Why not, right?
After fiddling with the polymer and the stainless plungers in my CS45 (and later CS9), both of my CS guns are running ... polymer guide rod plungers.
Yes, I noticed some minor abrading and light fuzz at the end of the polymer plungers, similar to what was seem in the video. I just removed it (cut or plucked, depending), and didn't worry about it anymore.
FWIW, I also started letting my recoil springs run out a little longer in the CS45/9's, instead of replacing them in 1000rds (=/-200rds). Of course, I'm shooting them a bit less, too, since I'm no longer working our old LE range and shooting a few times per month.
This reminds me of when I learned one of our guys who owned a CS45, which he used as an off-duty weapon, hadn't replaced his mag or recoil springs since he'd bought the gun ... 10 years ago. Granted, he only shot the gun a couple times a year, but that was kinda outside the then-new mag/recoil spring replacement recommendation S&W was telling its armorers, of every 5 years (left fully loaded) or 5,000 rounds fired.
Prior to that, the company basically just told us to monitor functioning, checking for positive slide stop/slide engagement during live-fire on the firing line, and also at the bench when inspecting empty guns/mags at the bench. This was done by manually racking the slides as fast as possible to see if the mag spring lifted the follower quickly enough to lift the slide stop into the slide's stop notch. We were also told to compare free length of used springs to new springs, and given a broad rule-of-thumb for serviceable free length of working recoil and mag springs.
Anyhow, while this guy with the CS45 wasn't experiencing any feeding or functioning issues with his 10 year old gun and springs, using the various 230gr factory ammo we provided at the range, I recommended he order some new springs. Just to err on the conservative side of owner maintenance practices to help keep his gun running.
My CS45 guide rod & plunger (left) and a TSW guide rod assembly (right). That's the polymer rod plunger I've been running for quite a few years (and many cases of ammo), minus any plastic fuzz I've removed.
More comparison pics of steel and plastic plungers for guide rods.
Now, installing the slide stop lever's pin in the frame is something that ought not be done with excessive force, of course. Unlike the guy in the video, I usually finish putting the slide/barrel on the frame, and then retract the slide until the slide stop notches in the slide and frame align ... and then I either tip the muzzle up, or use the tip of my finger to push the barrel to the rear ... so the barrel lug moves to the rear and clears the frame hole where the slide stop pin is going to be inserted. Tipping the barrel up lets gravity do the work for you. (Grasping the frame so your thumb and web of your hand is under the grip tang of the frame, and your fingers are up and around in front of the rear sight base, let's you squeeze and hold the slide and frame aligned to let the barrel tip and fall back, or you can hold the gun horizontal and push the barrel back, depending on your preference.)
Don't mangle the plastic plunger by trying to push it through the steel barrel lug that's in the way of the pin you're trying to push into the frame hole. Won't work.
Just some thoughts.
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"Red Flag"?!?
Relax, folks.
Yes, S&W introduced a polymer guide rod plunger for some of the budget models, including the CS guns. Just like they designed polymer disconnectors and mainspring cups in the 90's ... and don't forget the long running ejector depressor plunger.
Back when I first noticed I had a polymer guide rod plunger in my CS45 (bought '99 or 2000?), I called and asked about it with one of the guys at the factory. He said they weren't getting complaints about them in Pistol Repair, but offered to send me a few extra stainless steel plungers if I wanted. Why not, right?
After fiddling with the polymer and the stainless plungers in my CS45 (and later CS9), both of my CS guns are running ... polymer guide rod plungers.
Yes, I noticed some minor abrading and light fuzz at the end of the polymer plungers, similar to what was seem in the video. I just removed it (cut or plucked, depending), and didn't worry about it anymore.
FWIW, I also started letting my recoil springs run out a little longer in the CS45/9's, instead of replacing them in 1000rds (=/-200rds). Of course, I'm shooting them a bit less, too, since I'm no longer working our old LE range and shooting a few times per month.
This reminds me of when I learned one of our guys who owned a CS45, which he used as an off-duty weapon, hadn't replaced his mag or recoil springs since he'd bought the gun ... 10 years ago. Granted, he only shot the gun a couple times a year, but that was kinda outside the then-new mag/recoil spring replacement recommendation S&W was telling its armorers, of every 5 years (left fully loaded) or 5,000 rounds fired.
Prior to that, the company basically just told us to monitor functioning, checking for positive slide stop/slide engagement during live-fire on the firing line, and also at the bench when inspecting empty guns/mags at the bench. This was done by manually racking the slides as fast as possible to see if the mag spring lifted the follower quickly enough to lift the slide stop into the slide's stop notch. We were also told to compare free length of used springs to new springs, and given a broad rule-of-thumb for serviceable free length of working recoil and mag springs.
Anyhow, while this guy with the CS45 wasn't experiencing any feeding or functioning issues with his 10 year old gun and springs, using the various 230gr factory ammo we provided at the range, I recommended he order some new springs. Just to err on the conservative side of owner maintenance practices to help keep his gun running.
My CS45 guide rod & plunger (left) and a TSW guide rod assembly (right). That's the polymer rod plunger I've been running for quite a few years (and many cases of ammo), minus any plastic fuzz I've removed.
More comparison pics of steel and plastic plungers for guide rods.
Now, installing the slide stop lever's pin in the frame is something that ought not be done with excessive force, of course. Unlike the guy in the video, I usually finish putting the slide/barrel on the frame, and then retract the slide until the slide stop notches in the slide and frame align ... and then I either tip the muzzle up, or use the tip of my finger to push the barrel to the rear ... so the barrel lug moves to the rear and clears the frame hole where the slide stop pin is going to be inserted. Tipping the barrel up lets gravity do the work for you. (Grasping the frame so your thumb and web of your hand is under the grip tang of the frame, and your fingers are up and around in front of the rear sight base, let's you squeeze and hold the slide and frame aligned to let the barrel tip and fall back, or you can hold the gun horizontal and push the barrel back, depending on your preference.)
Don't mangle the plastic plunger by trying to push it through the steel barrel lug that's in the way of the pin you're trying to push into the frame hole. Won't work.
Just some thoughts.
Tnks for the info.
IF the gun does indeed have about 1200 rds does this change anything in your opinion.
Are you taking the position that Smith no longer making parts for the CS9 and apparently all gen 3 handguns is NOT a huge problem for owners of these pistols?
Don't mangle the plastic plunger by trying to push it through the steel barrel lug that's in the way of the pin you're trying to push into the frame hole. Won't work.
Aha!
Thanks, that explains how the polymer tips get fuzzy!!
I'd concluded it wasn't a show-stopper on mine, but had
the unanswered "why'd dat happen" ruminating.
Edit: now I'll be wondering "how'd he take those plungers
out?"
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Aha!
Thanks, that explains how the polymer tips get fuzzy!!
I'd concluded it wasn't a show-stopper on mine, but had
the unanswered "why'd dat happen" ruminating.
Edit: now I'll be wondering "how'd he take those plungers
out?"
Installing and removing the slide stop lever pin pushes/pulls the plunger head across the end of the lever pin's tip, and along the length of the lever's pin. The plunger can rotate, so marks, burrs or scratches can end up all around the plunger head.
FWIW, when the steel plunger is used, pushing/pulling the lever pin back and forth across it can create a rolled burr/lip on the outside edge of the plunger head. I've occasionally has to use a stone to deburr a steel plunger head.
The plungers on the older style 2-piece staked collar guide rods aren't removable. The collars are staked to the rod body.
The newer style all-steel 1-piece rods have the collar machined into the rear of the rod. The spring is snapped onto the bottom of the plunger, and the bottom (larger) end of the spring is inserted, twisted (to lightly compress the large bottom winding) and then pushed down into the hole of the rod body. Ditto removal (pull the plunger tip, twist the spring as it emerges and remove it). I prefer to twist the spring counter-clockwise as I insert it into the rod (or remove it), to minimize having the sharp end of the last winding's wire drag against the inside of the rod opening.
Removal of the plunger and spring isn't required for normal maintenance or cleaning. Not unless the guide rod assembly were to be exposed to some hostile environmental condition and contaminated, like dropped and submerged into standing water, ocean, etc. The sort of thing where an armorer would really detail strip an entire gun.
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Kinda depends what might become damaged or broken.
As long as the gun has been cleaned and lubricated (protecting the aluminum frame rails), and the previous owner didn't do any kitchen table tinkering under the hood, 1200rds of good quality factory ammo means the gun is essentially broken in. Some agencies who issued 3rd gen's required up to at least twice that number of rounds fired for each academy shooter, and then the guns were afterward used in-service by the shooters for recurrent training, quals, etc, during their careers.
The newer production 3rd gen guns were pretty robust. Normal cleaning and lubrication practices, combined with some reasonable spring replacements (mag/recoil) could help keep them running for a long time.
Personally, if I were buying a Used 3rd gen, I'd prefer to buy one made after the introduction of MIM. Think the end of the 90's and through the first several years of the early 2000's, and while the production and assembly was still being done in Springfield by folks who had been making them for years (before it was moved to the Houlton plant). The company was buying new manufacturing equipment, making improvements and refining their designs and materials. Parts and assemblies were becoming more precise regarding tolerances and production.
Sadly, the 3rd gen's had reached a very respectable pinnacle of quality and reliability, and then the company discontinued them for the more marketable plastic guns (due to market forces).
Sure, gunsmiths who are familiar with working on the 3rd gen S&W's (as well as the 1st & 2nd gen) seem to be dwindling in numbers, and the remaining factory trained armorers are likely retired (or have aged out). As the remaining new parts become less frequently found and available ... so, too, might be the people trained and experienced to service and repair the 3rd gen guns. (Which is an all-too-familiar story with a number of discontinued/obsolete firearms, right?)
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