CSB-1 in the 44 magnum

[Nemo288]

I scored some of the Maxam CSB-1 in the hope it could replace Universal/Unique in my target loads.
I finally got to shoot my first test box.

The equipment:
A ProChrono digital with Caldwell infrared light bar for indoor use.
A 30 year old Ruger Redhawk 7.5" and a S&W 629-2 4" ported.
The load:
Brand new Starline nickel 44 magnum brass.
WLP primers.
X-Treme 240 grain Plated Flat Point bullet loaded to 1.563" COAL
Light Pro Crimp in cannelure
6-9.5 grains CSB-1 (I chickened out at the last moment on loading 10)
The Data:
..........................4" 629-2....................................7.5" Redhawk
Grains..........FPS.........SD.........CE....................FPS..........SD.............CE

6.................670........24...........4533................747..........17..............454
7.................829.........7............4562................870..........20..............456
8.................897........10...........4575................985...........6...............4576
9 ................977........14...........4587...............1066..........16..............4586
9.5.............1024........16...........4592...............1096..........10..............459

Notes:
CE is case diameter at its largest at the pressure bulge ahead of the rim. This is NOT case head expansion.
By the last 2 loads it is approaching maximum allowed by the chamber and is starting to move downward towards the rim.
In a given lot of brass you can get a feel for the pressure regime by the "profile" of the bulge.
If it is a steep shelf you are in trouble.

I would load 10 grains but that would be it. The cases looked fine and were not anywhere near the look of a "full" load.

The performance is in line with Universal and Unique. 10 grains is the accepted standard maximum for Universal under a 240 either lead or copper.
A regression of the load data shows a best fit using a logarithmic curve and predicts a 10 grain velocity of 1145 in the Redhawk.
Again this is in the ballpark compared to published data.

To show the futility of using Standard Deviation with small data sets (5 in this case), the best target was turned in by 7 grains in the Redhawk which had the 2nd worst SD.

In retrospect, I should have used a stronger bullet as I started to get some keyholing with the top 2 loads.
I have also seen this phenomenon when driving the Speer GDHP (also a plated bullet) too fast.

I have loaded some side by side comparison rounds with CSB-1 and Universal.
When I get them shot I will append the results here.

I have not had a working optical chronograph for many years so most of my Universal target loads were developed using holes in paper.
Consequently I don't have all the data I would wish for to make better comparisons here.

===
Nemo

 

[SLT223]

I picked up 8lbs of this stuff from American Reloading before they jacked their prices. The load data they show is identical to Hodgdon's Universal Clays. So far I've only used it in .357 Mag with very good results. Six grains makes for a very comfortable +P load. CSB-1 looks, smells, and perform like Universal.

Thank you for sharing your .44 results. I plan to load .44 Special in .44 Mag cases with the same slugs you used as well as Bayou Bullets' 240gr Hi-Tek coated LSWC. Can't wait. I'm yet to be disappointed by a fast flake powder behind lead at moderate velocity...especially in .44!

 

[Nemo288]

CSB-1 vs. Universal comparison data

I finally got to shoot some loads identical except for powder.
The load:
44 Magnum WW brass, CCI 300 primer, 200 grain GDHP, 7.6 grains of powder.
I was aiming for 7.5 but 7.6 is what came out.
Numbers are fps measured 10 feet from muzzle. Average of 6 shots per load.

....4" 629 ported......7.5" Redhawk
Universal..CSB-1....Universal..CSB-1
...758.......870.........842.......954

This tells me the "CSB-1" I have is faster and more energetic than Universal.
The difference is more than I expected but good science is based on experimental evidence not internet rumour.
I would have preferred it otherwise but for shotguns this means more usefulness on the target end of things than Universal.
I will continue to use CSB-1 instead of Universal but will have to work up new loads.
(I would have anyway).
Anyone tells you that you can use Universal data smile knowingly and walk away.

The feeling in the shotgun community is that this powder is somewhere in-between Universal and Greendot.

If it ever comes around CSB-2 would be closer and is the slowest of the Maxam powders.

===
Nemo

 

[SLT223]

Interesting results, Nemo. Thank you for sharing. Sure is faster than Universal. How was the accuracy with your CSB-1 loads? Mine was pretty respectable, but I was only loading 6.5gr. I don't have a chrono yet, but I know they were going sloooowwww because they were printing high at 10 yards with the rear site bottomed out. They were shot from a 3" 629, 6" 629, and 8" 29-2.

 

[Nemo288]

I wasn't getting too serious about the groups with this first test.
The Universal loads are a standard defense load for me.
The equivalent of the factory Speer GDHP round.
I would have to tone down the CSB-1 to get similar results.
I use the targets to keep from shooting the chronograph mostly
The powder I am using for the 900-1000 fps type loads in both special and magnum is N105.
I have shot a few of these but not enough for a report yet.
Still fitting the bullet to the gun with all these loads.

===
Nemo

 

[Nemo288]

CSB-1 in the 44 Special

ProChrono with infrared light bar indoors at 75F.
3" 696-1
Speer nickel plated 44 special brass once fired.
Ginex P1 primer
Rainier 240 grain plated hollow point.
COAL 1.5"

CSB-1 .FPS
5 gr.....605
5.5......669
6 gr.....737
6.5......789

Best group

I will retest these with the CCI primer and maybe the WLP.
The Ginex is somewhat hotter than the CCI and a little tight in American plated brass.
I was giving them a try and they are coming up a tad short.

 

[SLT223]

Thanks again Nemo. I'm actually surprised to see 6.5gr achieved almost 800fps from a 3" BBL. I thought it was going slower than that. I really need to get a chrono. I still have over 7 pounds of this CSB1 stuff.

 

[dla]

I scored some of the Maxam CSB-1 in the hope it could replace Universal/Unique in my target loads.
I finally got to shoot my first test box.

The equipment:
A ProChrono digital with Caldwell infrared light bar for indoor use.
A 30 year old Ruger Redhawk 7.5" and a S&W 629-2 4" ported.
The load:
Brand new Starline nickel 44 magnum brass.
WLP primers.
X-Treme 240 grain Plated Flat Point bullet loaded to 1.563" COAL
Light Pro Crimp in cannelure
6-9.5 grains CSB-1 (I chickened out at the last moment on loading 10)
The Data:
..........................4" 629-2....................................7.5" Redhawk
Grains..........FPS.........SD.........CE....................FPS..........SD.............CE

6.................670........24...........4533................747..........17..............454
7.................829.........7............4562................870..........20..............456
8.................897........10...........4575................985...........6...............4576
9 ................977........14...........4587...............1066..........16..............4586
9.5.............1024........16...........4592...............1096..........10..............459

Notes:
CE is case diameter at its largest at the pressure bulge ahead of the rim. This is NOT case head expansion.
By the last 2 loads it is approaching maximum allowed by the chamber and is starting to move downward towards the rim.
In a given lot of brass you can get a feel for the pressure regime by the "profile" of the bulge.
If it is a steep shelf you are in trouble.

I would load 10 grains but that would be it. The cases looked fine and were not anywhere near the look of a "full" load.

The performance is in line with Universal and Unique. 10 grains is the accepted standard maximum for Universal under a 240 either lead or copper.
A regression of the load data shows a best fit using a logarithmic curve and predicts a 10 grain velocity of 1145 in the Redhawk.
Again this is in the ballpark compared to published data.

To show the futility of using Standard Deviation with small data sets (5 in this case), the best target was turned in by 7 grains in the Redhawk which had the 2nd worst SD.

In retrospect, I should have used a stronger bullet as I started to get some keyholing with the top 2 loads.
I have also seen this phenomenon when driving the Speer GDHP (also a plated bullet) too fast.

I have loaded some side by side comparison rounds with CSB-1 and Universal.
When I get them shot I will append the results here.

I have not had a working optical chronograph for many years so most of my Universal target loads were developed using holes in paper.
Consequently I don't have all the data I would wish for to make better comparisons here.

===
Nemo

When I look at your data, I see a sweet spot at 8gr. Above that it gets a bit erratic.

Sometimes I use the Extreme Spread as an indicator of combustion efficiency for a given powder/bullet/primer/case. Most load progressions will have a clearly defined "sweet spot", i.e. where the ES is smallest. Not necessarily the most accurate, but the most consistent - and usually where I stop.

 

[Yorkie Man]

I have been working with this powder for a year now in the 9mm, 38spl, 40, 10mm, 41, 44 mag and 45 colt. One thing I found was this powder does not like to be compressed and most of the accurate loads were in the middle of the loading data. The Universal to CSB-1 conversion did not work for me.

I contacted Maxam last year and spoke with one of their reps who told me that the powder was not supposed to be released because they were still testing loading data and were hoping to release it in canister form sometime in 2015. I asked him about some of the data provided with the powder and he told me it didn't come from Maxam and could not recommend it.

 

[Nemo288]

Thanks for the information.
There was a huge debate on the Shotgunworld forum about the legitimacy of this powder release.
One member had several loads pressure tested and that where the opinion about its burn rate being faster than universal and slower than green dot came from.
I started testing it in my strongest gun and pistol cases for the very reason there was no data and to get a handle on it's behavior as pressure went up.
More than 90% of my revolver shooting is in the 44 special and I feel if I treat this powder more like it was PB and stay under 900 fps I will be OK.
More to follow as I also have enough to last me the rest of my days and universal may never be seen again as we knew it.
I am also playing with N105 as a faster "replacement" for 2400 but that is another story.
The powder shortage sure is keeping us experimental reloaders busy.