Curious

[Alamak]

I'm looking at an M&P 15 for $650 right now. Here are the things that jump out at me. Albeit the M4 is clearly an upgrade, we as humans tend towards those things we are most comfortable with, and I am 12 years comfortable with the A2. So naturally, what I'm about to explain is very appealing, but I've yet to see anything like this and was curious if anyone out there in S&W land has:

The lower receiver is the S&W M&P15. The stock seems to be as well (telescoping M-4 style). That's where things go strange. The rest of the rifle is nearly all A2. A2 handguards, molded carry handle (no modular rails at all), forward assist, front and rear A2 iron sights with the rear being a flip-down pin-hole. The barrel has no flash suppressor and is rifle-length.

My question is this: Is this just a very modified M&P15 or has S&W built a combo like this in the past? I'll be honest, aside from the safety not reading "semi/burst" and the stock, this looks and feels like a straight-up standard A2.

I would have linked pics, but my phone died as I was trying to take the pics. I'll probably toss a couple up tomorrow after work. I'd like to get your thoughts on these mods (if that's what they are), and general thoughts on the price.

 

[Martimus]

Smith and Wesson makes a M&P15 that looks similar to the description that you've provided. Does it look anything like this?

Product: Model M&P15 Rifle

In this case, however, the barrel does have a flash supressor on it. Any chance the barrel is threaded?

 

[MichiganScott]

No flash hider would make it a gun for made for certain states that don't allow the flash hider if the upper is current. If you are saying that the carry handle is non-detachable, the upper is probably not S&W. I may be wrong, but I believe that S&W always made flat tops. IIRC, rifle length barrels were only made in the specialty models and not as a plain A2.

Sounds like someone placed a Clinton era upper on a S&W lower.

 

[Foxtrot]

The M&P15 model comes with flash supressor, 16 inch barrel, M4 handguard, and detachable carry handle under which is a modular rail as the M&P15 is really a flat top with detachable carry handle. You did not say but i'm assuming the carry handle you are describing is not detachable. Every other M&P model is modular railed flat top type without carry handle.

It may be a S&W M&P15 lower, but based upon the description you have provided so far its not a M&P15 series rifle upper unless its some sort of special configuration order thing from S&W but i'm not sure thats possible. If its even a genuine S&W lower to begin with, i'm willing to bet someone got hold of some S&W lowers (or a S&W lower) and put a different upper on.

The place you are seeing this from, are they actually touting and selling it as an M&P15 model or a genuine M&P15 model?

Is this from a LGS or on line? If on line what is the web site?

Is there a side swivel on the weapon?

Is this being sold as a new weapon or is it used or on consignment?

Verify this is a genuine S&W M&P 15 lower also, a few tale tale signs to look for (the pic below is a genuine S&W logo so for the logo look for differences from the picture):

On the lower, on the left side above the trigger and slightly below where the upper meets the lower, are there any letter/numbers after the "Model M&P - 15" like "Model M&P - 15XX" or "Model M&P - 15 - xx" (where XX will be the letters or numbers)?

Is the space between the top of the letters in the "Model M&P - 15" and where the upper meets the lower greater or less than the height of the letters in the "Model M&P - 15"?

Is the first "M" in the "Model M&P - 15", the left side of that "M", 3/10 ths of an inch from the trigger side of the bolt release mount?

On the lower, on left side on the magazine well, is the S&W engraved logo complete and proper and does it look exactly like in the picture below (without the blue coloring of course, its the only picture of the logo I had available at the time):

In the engraved lettering below the logo are there three periods in the "U.S.A." and is there a "®" to the lower right of the logo in the correct place and of the correct size as shown in the picture above (notice the left side of the "R" in the "®" is aligned vertically with the right point of the right side stylized diamond in the logo - also notice at the very top of the stylized "S" in the logo there is at the top center what will look like a small stylized 'P')

Is the "SN" for the serial number showing as "SN" (< this is what it should be) or "S.N." or "S.N" or "SN." and is the serial number five digits and is there a space equal to the width of the first two serial number digits between the "N" from "SN" and the first number in the serial number and is the height and width of the "SN" letters equal to the height of the serial numbers and are all on the same base line and level horizontally and vertically?

 

[oneyeopn]

The rifle length barrel and non-detachable carrying handle have me convinced it's not an S&W upper. The no flash suppresor could be what state he is in. It really sounds interesting but it is priced the same as the used colts and bushy's around here. I would like to see pics. Also what shape was the bore in? How did the lugs on the bolt look? It also makes me wonder if someone upgraded their older Colt Lower with a new S&W upper.

 

[Alamak]

AR Pics

1-9 rifle, also, based on my A2 experience, I'd say the barrell seems a little beefier, but that could be illusionary because of the lack of suppressor. The pics should explain/answer your earlier questions

 

[Foxtrot]

Nope, its not an M&P15 upper and the grip isn't an M&P15 grip either. S&W uses a checkered type pattern on the M&P15 grip and they don't put cage codes on the grip. The M&P15 uses a M4 profile barrel and thats not it.

The grip is the TAPCO AR SAW Style Pistol Grip and S&W M&P 15s definately do not use those.

What you have there is not an M&P15 series rifle.

Also give S&W a call and check out the serial number, they will be able to tell you exactly what weapon model that lower came from.

 

[Alamak]

That grip looks familiar, can't place it

it's a Tapco grip/stock

Also, I'll be contacting S&W to check the SN. The more and more I look at the barrell, the more I'm intrigued. It's a DPMS 5.56 1-9, and the thickness of the barrel is 3 times the exit.

 

[PainterlyShotgroup]

Was this advertised as "new"? It really looks like a rifle someone pieced together. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but it shouldn't be advertised as something it's not. It might be new or unused parts, but it really looks like a brand "X" upper on a S&W lower with after market furniture. The $650 price tag is also suspect. Most Sport models don't go for that.

 

[Foxtrot]

it's a Tapco grip/stock

Also, I'll be contacting S&W to check the SN. The more and more I look at the barrell, the more I'm intrigued. It's a DPMS 5.56 1-9, and the thickness of the barrel is 3 times the exit.

Yeah I know now, at first I kept thinking the grip was familiar and for some reason I had the military M249 SAW pop into my head, but after thinking about it I realized what it was and realize why I was associating SAW with it.

Ya know I sort of thought DPMS also but was not so sure. I thought it was this one at first > http://dpmsinc.3dcartstores.com/20-1x9-Twist_p_233.html

 

[Alamak]

Was this advertised as "new"?

Absolutely not. No, I wasn't looking for something new at all. I wanted a good deal on a good used AR and this seemed to fit the bill for what I was in the market. I have known the vendor for many years and he is certainly not the misleading type.

 

[oneyeopn]

That is a DPMS upper here is the link:
20" A2 Barrel Assembly (Post Ban)
It took some studying but it is even missing the bayonet lug and a heavy barrel assy without threaded end or flash suppressor and if you know it is a DPMS barrel then this link looks exactly like your upper.

 

[JaPes]

The only thing I can say with certainty is that the lower receiver is S&W, the rest isn't. I remember there was a time when I could find stripped S&W lower receivers for sale. It's a home built Franken-AR for sure.

Calling S&W with the SN won't get you anywhere but to confirm whether or not the lower once belonged to a complete rifle or was purchased as a stripped lower.

I'm looking at an M&P 15 for $650 right now.

$650 for that? Unknown round count, pieced together rifle? I'd haggle down the price. I also have one piece of advice. If you don't have the experience to judge the condition & build quality of a home assembled AR, bring someone along who does.

I have known the vendor for many years and he is certainly not the misleading type.

I can't judge the relationship you have with your LGS. All I can do is advise you to be cautious. Regardless of my personal feelings about the LGS, its a transaction. Treat it as a transaction. The LGS wants my cash. I don't necessarily need their firearm.

... and I am 12 years comfortable with the A2.

If you do buy that rifle, you can replace the M4 stock with an A2 tube, spring, & stock. Google up the prices of those parts. Subtract that from the $650 asking price. That will give you a starting point to haggle down from.

The best advice I can give:

Assembling an AR lower & topping it off with a complete upper isn't difficult. You can buy a stripped AR lower & A2 lower build kit. Then top it off with a 20" 5.56 complete A2 upper.

If you shop around and are patient, you can build the A2 you want within your budget. That way you'll know what was used to build the rifle, and that the person who built it did so with care.

 

[Alamak]

Awesome

Thanks a bunch for all the insight and advice, I'll be looking into it this afternoon! Great stuff fellas!