Cylinder bolt not locked after hammer fall

[edfardos]

I just "fired" this message off to S&W, but I thought I'd gather opinions here. Is the timing too slow on this M69? I read about doing a proper bench test recently, and it seems to fail the rotation/lockup.

"""""""""
Hi S&W, on a model 69, if I pull the trigger or cock the firearm VERY slowly, The bolt does not fully engage the cylinder. In some cases, the hammer falls before the bolt is fully engaged. ie, I pull the trigger and let the hammer fall slowly forward, and i can still "click" the cylinder into place afterwards by hand. Any drag on the cylinder makes it easy to replicate. full-speed cock/pull isn't an issue at all.
"""""""""

 

[edfardos]

video demo, if it helps,

YouTube video of no cylinder lock on cock

 

[armorer951]

After a thorough cleaning and wipe down, and with snap caps or empty casings installed, cock it in single action to confirm the cylinder rotation is completed during each cocking cycle, and the cylinder stop locks into place before the trigger bevel reaches the SA cocking notch. Looking at your video, your timing appears to be late. (The factory may respond and judge that, after cocking in SA, that if the cylinder locks on the cylinder stop when the trigger is pulled, then the action timing is not "late") Customer Service will most likely ask you to send it in for an evaluation and possible repair, and provide a mailing label.

The cylinder timing can be "late" (DCU condition) for a variety of reasons, including wear and tear or damage to the interface between the hand and the cylinder/extractor ratchets, shooting debris, run out on the extractor rod, wear in the hand slot in the frame, yoke misalignment and excessive cylinder end shake (excessive rear gauge or headspace) .....among others.

The factory remedy for this problem would be to check the things I've mentioned above, and to subsequently install a new, wider hand, or possibly, to fit both a new extractor and hand to the gun, depending on the severity of the issue.

 

[edfardos]

Great - thanks.

The cylinder does lock after the trigger is pulled, as the hammer falls, if the cylinder is completely free to spin.

The cylinder does not lock after trigger is pulled, if I put any drag on the cylinder at all. ie, let the cylinder drag across your thumb for example. Otherwise, it locks as the hammer falls.

The cylinder does not lock in DOUBLE action either, if and only if I drag the cylinder with a thumb and pull slowly.

Same deal with empty brass inserted (no snap caps on hand)

So... late by S&W standards?

Safe to shoot, by any standard?


thanks!
-craig

 

[armorer951]

It's certainly late by my standard, but I'm a far cry from a service manager in a major gun manufacturer's repair department.

I would not agree that it would be safe or advisable to shoot either, based on the caliber of the gun, and the fact that you have no way of actually checking the barrel/cylinder alignment there on your bench without an alignment gauge or range rod.
At the very least, misalignment can also contribute to additional wear to the barrel extension/forcing cone area.

Since this is likely a warranty issue, the gun should be covered under S&W's lifetime agreement. I would consider sending it back for an evaluation.

 

[edfardos]

Thanks again, I'll see what S&W says. I need to do a CCW qualification, then I'll send it back. As far as i can tell it's been like this since I owned it, roughly 800 rounds ago. I remember seeing the cylinder click into place as the hammer fell on day one.

Once locked, each chamber looks perfectly centered on the bore, but I don't have any tools to be sure. Under normal speed single and double action it locks up every time. The slow pull or cock really is a torcher test for these! I did the same function test on a RedHawk, which locks up early, if anything.

I started a thread a few days ago about a double-strike (bang then click), during my first extremely slow double action at the range. last couple shots in cylinder, ammo weight on the left side of the firearm. Indicative of late timing as well? cylinder was able to reverse? I assumed hand was held back by crud, or a short-stroke.


thanks,
-craig

 

[edfardos]

this thread is similar, with S&W indicating the late timing is normal. an early timing would lockup the gun, which is more objectionable than late timing?

Revolver Timing? | The High Road

interesting in any event,

craig

 

[edfardos]

3.5 weeks after mail-in date, fedex dropped off the M69 here at the house,

Repair Extractor Rod
Replace Extractor
Repair Yoke

Cylinder locks in advance of cock or hammer fall, even when dragged.


following up, closing out thread - thanks for all the tips!
-craig