Cylinder Honing Assistance

buckyjames1

US Veteran
Joined
Sep 24, 2008
Messages
241
Reaction score
121
Location
Virginia Beach Va.
So I decided to hone the cylinder of my 686+. If all goes well I will also do my 60-10.
I received my 400 and 800 grit:

Flex-Hone Pistol Cylinder Hone 38 Special, 357 Magnum 800 Grit - MidwayUSA

My questions are:
1. cylinder comes completely apart correct? star does not get honed?

2. What are the measurements of a .357mag cylinder where I need to stop? .38spl mostly shot. Figured I'd caliper flex-hone and tape up a stop depth.

I'm just ready to get some experience and know-how. I've changed out springs, completely disassembled pistol but this will be 1st attempt at hone. I will be using hand drill and bench vice. Any suggestions and help will be much appreciated.
 
Register to hide this ad
1. correct. Use with honing oil.
2. .357 is straight reamed, so just polish the chambers, not the throats.

Honing is using stones to polish out minor machining marks.

If you open up the chambers too much, you will have split cases, so just polish the lines. Case size in .379 so no bigger than .381 Spend 1-2 minutes per chamber. That's all that is needed.
 
I guess it matters how fast you spin the drill. ;)
It's more important to measure the chambers so you don't over do it.
Measure with a plug gauge if you have one or measure with a vernier.

It's when you do a 9mm or 45 that the plug measurement won't work. Those sizes are tapered.
 
One additiional point is that you don't have to remove all of the machining marks, just smooth the chamber walls out enough to allow free extraction.
 
So... the experiences begins.
disassembly went good until...the star, exctractor rod, and spring would absolutely not come apart. This was odd because before I sent it to P/C for lotsa custom work I could easily separate all the parts.
They use loctite extreme version?
So I thought well I'll just vise grip, stabalize, and separate the extractor and spring from star. (using right parts names?).
I used 1/2 in tubular as abrasive gripping surface on cylinder, star rod? and extractor rod? but long story short...
It slipped and I torqued the living poop out of the star. Now 60-10 is all kinds of messed up and inoperable. Cylinder will not stay in locked position, timing is hosed, and to sum it up...Its locked up.
Sucks but its local gunsmith or S/W time.
So to scavenge a "lessons learned" or after actions report. How does one deal with a stubborn star/extractor that wont separate?
Still want to learn the trade or at least gain experience...

New tools purchased:
Flex Hone from Midway
Digital caliper good for ID/OD
What type caliper do you purchase for depths?

*Im in Virginia Beach area. Any forum members who have a shop or would like to instruct a Padawan...*

Thanks for input.
 
Last edited:
First question, and please don't be offended by this, at times we all do things that are head slapping dumb. Did you remember that it's a LEFT HAND THREAD? If you forgot that tidbit, that's your problem.

Second, I am absolutely NOT a proponent of using Locktite on the Ejector Rod, it creates too many problems if you ever have to service these parts. Frankly I would be shocked if someone at S&W used Locktite on these threads, they should know better than do something like that. However, on the off chance they did Locktite those threads there is a very simple solution. That is HEAT. Bake that cylinder in an oven until it's heated to about 150 degrees and it will normally come free easily. The only excption to this is if the High Temperature Locktite is used, in which case you'll want about 350 degrees of heat. You'll also have to free things up while the cylinder is hot, so you'll want some good leather gloves for a 150 degree heat and welders gloves for the high temperature Locktite. BTW, the High Temp version is basically a special order item, nobody stocks it, so it's very unlikely to come across it.

Also, if you ever do see a gun with these threads Locktited, it's an absolute MUST that you clean every trace of that crap from the threads on both parts before attempting a re-assembly. This means using a very powerful solvent such as MEK to clean up the mess.

Three, fired cases are your friend anytime you have to do this, personally I prefer a full cylinder. They provide an additional "lock" that keeps the extractor from being damaged.

Four, I've always used my left hand to hold the cylinder and a small piece of leather folded over the knurling and gripped by a small pair of pliers to free up the extractor. The problem with trying to use a mechanical device to hold the cylinder is that it can "tip" in the clamp. When that happens you've just bent the extractor rod. Holding the cylinder in the hand will keep this from happening. From your description, it sounds as if someone tightened this joint "stupid tight". When that happens, HEAT is your friend, on the order of 350 to 400 degrees. Which means you'll need those welders gloves again. You'll also want something like an old ceramic bowl handy to drop the cylinder in once you break the ejector rod loose, even with welders gloves you'll have a relatively short "comfort time".

Finally a bit of Engineering background on screw threads. A fine pitch thread has a shallower "ramp angle" than a course pitch thread. As a result of this a fine pitch thread will produce a higher level of clamping force in proportion to the torque applied than a course pitch thread will. The threads on the ejector rod are a VERY fine pitch and this means that they do NOT require an extreme level of torque to keep them tight.

When I assemble the ejector rod to the extractor I use my left hand as a "slip clutch" and this allows me to adjust the torque applied by varying how hard I squeeze. If the ejector shoots loose, I'll squeeze a bit harder when I re-tighten it. BTW, as a starting point the level of squeeze is basically a good firm handshake grip without an intention of inflicting pain. It might take a bit of trial and error to find the perfect level of squeeze but that's simply a good excuse to go shooting.

One final note, the first time I put an ejector back together it took me at lease 45 minutes. Because of the very fine pitch on these threads it's a joint that is VERY easy to get cross threaded. If it won't spin in with a twiddle between thumb and forefinger, you've got it cross threaded. Eventually I figured out a trick to getting these threads started the first time and it's pretty simple. Push in against the spring and turn the ejector rod in the unscrew direction until a very light "click" is felt. That "click" is the starting points of the male and female threads "dropping" into mesh. At that point you should be able to freely spin the ejector rod into the extractor. Note, threads fouled with locktite won't permit that "click" to be felt, which is why I'll never used it on this joint.
 
Last edited:
One other note on your digital calipers. DO NOT rely on these to measure the size of the ID. It takes a lot of experience using these to get a consistent reading within 0.0015 inch of actual size. In addition the ID probes are not typically well calibrated to the OD jaws, which means a basic error of as much as 0.005 inch may be in play.

As for a depth measurement, most digital calipers have a depth probe on the slider in the form of a wire to rectangular probe that sticks out. If yours don't have this feature, just take a toothpick and mark it with a pen, you really don't need to be very exact on the depth of the hone.

If your honing to a specific size, go to the following link and order a pin to the specific size you want to hit. BTW, I've set it to 0.380 inch, if you want a different size just undo the size selection and pick a new size.

MSC Google Search Results

Final note, in 30 years I've never been able to get my "material putter backer" to actually work. As a result whenever I do something like this I take a very conservative and less is better approach.
 
Last edited:
No offense taken
Thats why I post...always trying to learn something

Left hand thread...
well that would explain it.
Part of tinkering I guess...dont be afraid to get your hands dirty and be prepared to mess something up. Otherwise just send it off and never learn...

Last lesson I learned:
If you swap out springs...spend the cash and buy the tool. I spent a few hours trying to swap that dang spring out before someone recommend the speciality tool.
BROWNELLS : S&W REBOUND SLIDE SPRING TOOL - World's Largest Supplier of Firearm Accessories, Gun Parts and Gunsmithing Tools
I also lost 2 springs that seemed to vanish in thin air, but...now I know
 
Simplest bestest way to hold the ejector rod to remove it is to put it in a drill chuck to hold it. Preferably one you tighten with a key. If you want to measure your chambers a telescoping gauge and vernier micrometer are the way to go if you have skills to go with them. Acetone dissolves Loctite. Flex (ball) hones are for leaving a nice surface finish, not enlarging the chambers. You want to use them like you'd use an automotive cylinder hone to get a cross hatch moving it in and out as you hone. If you shoot competition where you can't have the ejector rod unscrewing at an inopportune time and tieing up the gun you put a very small drop of blue loctite on the threads when you assemble it. Put a small drop on the yoke sideplate screw threads also.
 
PMFJI, but is there really a need to do all this? I have 10 S&W revolvers from different eras and all the chamnber bores are mirror smooth. Only bad revolver I ever saw was a Dan Wesson back in the '70s. It was so bad no polishing would have helped.
 
I have 2 cylinders that seems a bit rougher than the others and the cases wont slide out as easily as the others.
I also have a Ruger .22/.22mag that I would like to try it out on. They definitly could use it. It isnt a 617 but I really like:

http://ruger.com/products/newModelSingleSixConvertible/models.html
Its a fun plinker and has the feel of full size single action.
 
Last edited:
I use split collars available from my local hardware store to clamp on the ejection rod. About $5-$6 each. Shaft Collar ? Two Piece Split Shaft Collars ? Inch | Ruland This is just an example of what I am talking about. They are .250 in diameter. If it is too big I just wrap a piece of paper around several times until the right diameter is reached and clamp it down. Works like a charm. For my J frame I just use the 3/16" dia and knock off the edges (inside corners) with a file to keep it from digging into the metal. Just remember left handed threads and you will be alright. I use "removeable Loctite (light blue)". No problems yet. Oven bake or a tip of a soldering iron works great. Had the same problem with my 686+ 3" with rough cylinder. I used Semichrome, drill with cotton patches and fixed the problem.
 
I used Semichrome, drill with cotton patches and fixed the problem.

+1

I use Flitz to polish my resizing dies and it would work the same on cylinders. A bore mop can also be used to polish the cylinders using Semichrome, Flitz, or your favorite metal polish.
 
Back
Top