Cylinder replacement?

[BC38]

Took my 15-5 out for it's second range trip today. I took it out once before and put just a couple of cylinders full of rounds through it. Shot great, but I noticed some of the empties were a little difficult to extract, but I didn't think much of it.

Today when I went to eject the first cylinder full of empties one of them just would NOT come out. I ended up having to punch it out of the chamber with a screwdriver.

Once I got it out I took a look at it and it was split most of the way down the side. The split was about 3/8" long and started about 3/16" from the rim WTH?!?

I took a REALLY hard look at the inside of that cylinder and the picture below is what I saw. I know in the photos it looks like a crack, but there is no sign of a crack on the outside of the cylinder. In person it almost looks as if someone cut a groove in the cylinder wall with a Dremel tool and a burr.

So, I guess now I have to try to find a replacement cylinder< What is the likelihood that I can replace it myself. Or would I need to and have a gunsmith fit and time it?

I'd think that the cylinder from just about any of the 6-shot K-frame 38s or even 357s would fit, wouldn't they? Anybody know where I can get a list of different models with a cylinder that would work.

I'm exploring the alternatives to either repair it, live with it as a 5-shot, or part it out...

 

[jimmyj]

That "Split" might be a lead streak.
Have you tied polishing that chamber ?

 

[BC38]

That "Split" might be a lead streak.
Have you tried polishing that chamber ?

Yup, I scrubbed it with a bronze bore brush. It cleaned the carbon out of it, but the flaw is still there. It's almost like the cylinder is stretched out and thinner along the line where the flaw is.

 

[tlay]

Try cleaning and polishing the cylinder first. I would think it would be difficult to put that type of scratch there.
As for switching cylinders you need one in the the same caliber. It would be better if it came with its extractor. If it does make sure its the same type. Different years of smiths changed them. When you get it changed out cycle it to check it out. Put some drag on the cylinder and cycle it slowly. Make sure the cylinder stop falls into every stop. If it is shirt you will need to work on the hand. If you cycle it fast it can mask a problem because the cylinder might keep moving due to momentum.

 

[BC38]

Try cleaning and polishing the cylinder first. I would think it would be difficult to put that type of scratch there.

Been there done that - see above...

As for switching cylinders you need one in the the same caliber. It would be better if it came with its extractor. If it does make sure its the same type. Different years of smiths changed them. When you get it changed out cycle it to check it out. Put some drag on the cylinder and cycle it slowly. Make sure the cylinder stop falls into every stop. If it is shirt you will need to work on the hand. If you cycle it fast it can mask a problem because the cylinder might keep moving due to momentum.

Yeah, I already know why the 357 won't work - too long.
Do you happen to know which exact model cylinders will fit (other than the obvious - another 15-5)?

 

[usnrigger]

Yes, it can be done. I'd let the gunsmith you take it to worry about the details. I'd try to find a same era cylinder but many times cylinders from different eras can work depending in measurements. I just fit up a 1950's 38/44 cylinder to a 1930 frame.

See thread, but would highly suggest a gunsmith if you are not properly trained.
http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-smithing/426325-shop-gun-project-progression.html

I'd say any k frame 38 cylinder would work try to stay same era and I'd look for one with matched ejector. I'd take measurements from original and ask about ones I found to compare. You could probably go back to mid 1960 and still be fine just depends on the numbers

 

[calmex]

I will be accused of not knowing what I am talking about, and perhaps I don't, but I think most "Model Marked" cylinders would fit. I think the area you run into problems generally is with the extractor rod/gas plug not fitting up well with your particular yoke. Now, since you HAVE the extractor rod/gas plug from the original cylinder, you should (might?) be good to go.

Here in Mexico, I have taken cylinders and frames from different buckets from guns that were "supposedly" destroyed by the military and then built up working revolvers. Okay, I know you're not supposed to do that, but to make this post more palatable let's say I saw someone else do it.

Anyway, it's obviously better if you have a access to a few different K-frame cylinders from the more-or-less right era (Model marked) to play with -- or if you can pick up some used cylinders from people selling parts?

With my K-38 (a Model 14-3), I just had a friend buy me a Model 64 parts set in another country from a place that was selling them and then he sent the cylinder off for moonclipping. When it finally got here (beamed down to me directly by Scotty from the Starship Enterprise should anyone be wondering how that's done) it fit perfectly into my K-38. So there's quite a bit of interchangability but often I have noticed -- maybe it's just me -- that the extractor rod/gas plug from one cylinder may prevent it switching out with another cylinder and the cure is often to just put the correct rod and gas plug into the new cylinder.

There can still be "headspace issues" of course, and sometimes timing issues. The way I do it is NOT scientific and is based on more what I have available and have to put up with instead of absolutely correct "this is the way you should do it" because the way I should do it is not a road that is open to me. (Of course, there are other roads open to me that would not be open to someone living in a less corrupt system).

So, put all this down as "my opinion" and not established scientific fact. But now you know and have my opinion. Good luck!

 

[Big Cholla]

IMHO, Calmex has got it just right. There is an amazing amount of 'just switch parts' going for most S&Ws. Due to their very good tolerance holding while machining both the old fashioned way and with the newer CNC way, I'm amazed at how often a replacement cylinder is just drop in. I say buy a M 15 cylinder in 38 Special that is matched to yours as far as the 'recessed' or non-recessed goes and give it a try.

Also, I'm intrigued about the damage to that cylinder. I will pay you to send that cylinder to me for my examination. I will then send it back to you at no cost on your part. I will write up what I think I am looking at and post a thread here after looking at it. Thanks...... Big Cholla

 

[calmex]

IMHO, Calmex has got it just right. There is an amazing amount of 'just switch parts' going for most S&Ws. Due to their very good tolerance holding while machining both the old fashioned way and with the newer CNC way, I'm amazed at how often a replacement cylinder is just drop in. I say buy a M 15 cylinder in 38 Special that is matched to yours as far as the 'recessed' or non-recessed goes and give it a try.

Also, I'm intrigued about the damage to that cylinder. I will pay you to send that cylinder to me for my examination. I will then send it back to you at no cost on your part. I will write up what I think I am looking at and post a thread here after looking at it. Thanks...... Big Cholla

I look forward to seeing your write up and I hope he sends you the cylinder so you can examine it. My Model 49 does not have a crack in the cylinder, but it does have a distinct blemish that won't rub out or clean out and is definitely a flaw in the steel. It does not cause me any problems in any way, so I ignore it. But it's there. Nothing like what we see here though.

 

[drgbike]

Here is a chamber hone link try it works great. .357 .38 Pistol Handgun Chamber Flex-Hone 800 grit Mag Magnum Cylinder Hone Ebay 351356749130

 

[BC38]

Here is a chamber hone link try it works great. .357 .38 Pistol Handgun Chamber Flex-Hone 800 grit Mag Magnum Cylinder Hone Ebay 351356749130

I must be missing something, how is honing the chamber going to help with a groove inside the cylinder wall? Won't that just increase the chamber diameter and make the problem worse?

 

[KLYDE]

Take a look at Numrich. I purchased a new, old stock M65 cylinder from them last year for $65. Not an expert, but as previously stated, a cylinder from another model .38 Spl. will most likely work.

 

[drgbike]

The hone will just polish, enable you to see whats beneath. Wont change dimension appreciably unless you do it to long.

 

[BC38]

The hone will just polish, enable you to see whats beneath. Wont change dimension appreciably unless you do it to long.

Gotcha. Bronze brush did a fair job of polishing it.

I decided to play around with my camera and see if I could get better pictures of this damaged cylinder. At this point I'm going to call it a bulged cylinder, though saying the wall is stretched thin might be a better description.

So, the first picture is of the outside of the cylinder. You can see where the previous owner made a little scratch on the outside by the stop notch to mark the damaged chamber. I never noticed this until after my range trip the other day when the case in this chamber split and stuck.

As you can see, from the outside the cylinder does NOT appear cracked

 

[BC38]

These next two pictures are of the outside of the cylinder.

The first photo has with the light reflecting off it just right so that you can see the slight depression along the outside of the cylinder where it appears to be stretched.

The second photo was edited to outline the slight depression line to make it easier to see.

 

[BC38]

These last two photos are of the inside of the cylinder after cleaning the damaged chamber.

The first photo is of the light reflecting off the flaw so you can see it.

In the second photo I've drawn a line around the flaw to highlight it. As you can see, it starts about 1/8"-3/16" of an inch into the cylinder - which lines up with where the stop notch is located on the outside of the cylinder.

I'm thinking that this chamber must've had a really "hot" load fired out of it and it just almost cracked and ruptured the chamber, but not quite. It came so close that it stretched the outer wall (the thinnest part of the cylinder).

 

[Engine49guy]

Just a heads up that the "dash 3" and earlier cylinders have the gas ring on the yolk where the 15-4 and up have the gas ring on the cylinder .

Correct era cylinders would also fit from the models 10, 14 or 15 as long as the gas ring is the same,
also be aware that the Model 12 and magnum cylinders will not work.

 

[BC38]

Just a heads up that the "dash 3" and earlier cylinders have the gas ring on the yolk where the 15-4 and up have the gas ring on the cylinder .

Correct era cylinders would also fit from the models 10, 14 or 15 as long as the gas ring is the same,
also be aware that the Model 12 and magnum cylinders will not work.

Very helpful info about the change in the M15 cylinder being made at the -4 rev.

Would you happen to know at what rev numbers the cylinder change was implemented for the 10 and 14 models?

I think I have one lined up already with one of the members on the board here, but that would be really useful info - just in case that one doesn't work out for some reason...

 

[BC38]

OK, so does ANYBODY know what rev number the model 10 and model 14 changed from having the gas ring mounted on the yoke to having it mounted on the cylinder?

 

[jt1]

Is it possible the gun has been dropped or struck, denting the outside of the cylinder and cracking the inside?