Cylinder timing

[bmh26]

Hello,

I’m currently rebuilding a S&W Victory revolver from nothing but a frame. I’m at the point where the cylinder is installed. It locks up and spins freely and properly. I looked down where the barrel would screw onto the frame and noticed that when the cylinder is lined up, their cylinder isn’t 100% centered. If the gun was finished and fired I don’t believe it would be a problem but I am wondering if this is normal.

What would the proper cylinder gap be? I’ve read between .006-.008. Is there a place I can buy gauges for this?

 

[Hondo44]

Buy a feeler gauge at an auto parts store.

 

[Alk8944]

"If the gun was finished and fired I don’t believe it would be a problem but I am wondering if this is normal."

Trying to judge what barrel/charge hole alignment will be by eye-balling through the "lunette" of the frame is what isn't normal. Actual timing is something you just have to trust to S&W because there isn't any simple way to check it on an assembled revolver.

I hate to say this but you should seriously consider your qualification to be repairing or "rebuilding" such a mechanism as a revolver with no more basic knowledge, like not even knowing about feeler gauges, than you apparently have. Building a safe revolver is far from just buying a bunch of used parts and throwing them together.

 

[steelslaver]

Do not be afraid to learn. An old victory is a good learning tool. When you install the barrel you will need a way to fully support the front of the frame while you tighten the barrel so that you do not deform the frame.
The barrel must come snug about 9:00 and tighten so sights align at 12:00 without a whole lot of torque.

Let us know how that goes. Once the barrel is on, you can measure the gap. First with cylinder pressed back away from barrel then pressed forward. The difference is called end shake and can be dealt with. You can get a set of feeler gauges at any auto parts house and most hardware stores. A set of thin leaves of steel or precision thickness with each thickness marked on the leaf

Once the barrel is installed then you can actually check the cylinder to barrel alignment.

 

[WR Moore]

Do not be afraid to learn. An old victory is a good learning tool. When you install the barrel you will need a way to fully support the front of the frame while you tighten the barrel so that you do not deform the frame.

The barrel must come snug about 9:00 and tighten so sights align at 12:00 without a whole lot of torque.

What he said: "Fully support the front of the frame." DOES NOT MEAN A HAMMER HANDLE OR BOARD THROUGH THE CYLINDER OPENING.

 

[steelslaver]

Yes. But, a vise with some pieces of hard wood shaped to fit both sides of the frame at barrel will work as well as a frame wrench. Best is to have the yoke in the frame, minus cylinder and rod assembly. Then a couple pieces of hard wood clamped on the barrel to turn it. Think around 40-60 ft lb You don't want to be all gorilla getting it tight. If you need more than that to get it so sights align you need to trim the rear shoulder on barrel. To much torque will cause barrel choke (tight spot in barrel at frame) or possibly a crack in the frame in yoke cut below the barrel.

I started off learning with an old model 10-2 with a cracked forcing cone. That gun has been through a lot of changes. LOL. It is now a adjustable sight 357 with a 2 1/2" barrel. Wouldn't win any beauty prizes, but if I needed to defend my life with it I am sure it would do its part .

 

[ken158]

"If the gun was finished and fired I don’t believe it would be a problem but I am wondering if this is normal."

Trying to judge what barrel/charge hole alignment will be by eye-balling through the "lunette" of the frame is what isn't normal. Actual timing is something you just have to trust to S&W because there isn't any simple way to check it on an assembled revolver.

I hate to say this but you should seriously consider your qualification to be repairing or "rebuilding" such a mechanism as a revolver with no more basic knowledge, like not even knowing about feeler gauges, than you apparently have. Building a safe revolver is far from just buying a bunch of used parts and throwing them together.

Thinking you are on a dangerous mission here. If locating a feeler gauge is a challenge, then what about the other speciality tools needed to finish this job? A barrel install is not done with the cylinder installed… Maybe you are using parts that came off your gun or maybe parts acquired from other avenues. There is a lot of hand fitting required to produce a successful outcome that you will need to know.

 

[steelslaver]

Up until he actually sticks rounds in it and pulls the trigger there is nothing dangerous about it. Until then the worst he can do is ruin a old victory frame. As he starting from a frame that is no huge loss compared to what he can learn by trying. In reality there is nothing all that hard about assembling one if you use the correct parts. He does need the correct hammer and trigger as those changed from long to short action. The cylinder era does not matter much at all and as long as it is a K frame barrel it will thread in the frame.

You do not even need a bunch of tools if your willing to go slow make a few simple jigs, Like I described to torque the barrel. A correctly sized hollow ground screw driver, a file like this 10" ******* file, this one is near perfect complete with on safed edge, https://www.msdiscounttool.com/cata...W7rKC3lXPjLSTHI3UjzGCPi7l9JIdySQaAnMCEALw_wcB a feeler gauge set, a vise and some pieces of hardwood is all your REALLY need, besides the ability to think study and use your hands.

Even once assembled firing it is no more dangerous than firing any other handgun if you do the basic checks on it. Something you actually should do on any hand gun before you first fire it.

Everyone had to start somewhere. Once upon a time even John Browning did not know how to use a feeler gauge or even what one was. HE obviously chose to change that.

Do not discourage the man and lament that no one actually knows how to work on revolvers anymore.

 

[dfariswheel]

The best advice for attempting this is to buy the Kuhnhausen Shop manual on the S&W Double Action Revolvers.

This was written by a Master gunsmith as a training aid for new gunsmith students.
It goes into deep detail on how to repair or rebuild a S&W revolver the way the factory does it.

If you're working with a S&W revolver this is the best money you can spend.
This should answer all your questions..........

HERITAGE GUN BOOKS S&W REVOLVER SHOP MANUAL- 5TH EDITION | Brownells

 

[DWalt]

Might even be something on YouTube showing how to do it, but I have not looked. Replacing a revolver barrel is not a project recommended for a beginner, but it can be done with a little research and study. Main thing to avoid is springing the frame while tightening or removing the barrel, which is probably pinned in place. A gunsmith will use a special frame wrench, but you can improvise one which can work just as well. The difficulty is getting the barrel clocked exactly right with the correct barrel-cylinder gap. The other hurdle is clamping the barrel in the jaws of a substantial vise without damaging it, and so it will not slip.

 

[SG-688]

...the correct hammer and trigger as those changed from long to short action. The cylinder era does not matter much at all and as long as it is a K frame barrel it will thread in the frame. ...

I was surprised to find with my 1942 New Zealand frankengun that short action triggers fit.

I adapted a 3-screw style cylinder stop to fit, but it was a lot of work with subtle changes in virtually every dimension.

 

[jmiles1960]

I successfully built an S&W Victory revolver from a box of parts purchased at an estate sale. If I can share any knowledge / experience, don't hesitate to ask. I created my own barrel / frame wrench for the project. You will know the barrel is correctly / closely at top dead center when the pin will go through the frame and barrel as it should. Research, learning, trial and error is what it is all about. Good luck and let us know how it goes.

 

[MSD2343]

What would the proper cylinder gap be? I’ve read between .006-.008. Is there a place I can buy gauges for this?

If you successfully get past the hurdles of tool prep/acquisition and other considerations wisely pointed out here, ideally you should be aiming for a cylinder gap of .004 to .006.