D.A. 45

[Departed402]

I've done some looking around on the internet for details about this family heirloom, and I figured I would turn to the experts here. The gun is not in my possession at the moment so these photos are all I have to offer. It appears to be a D.A.45 (and perhaps a M1917?) chambered in .45ACP. Somebody apparently decided to scratch the inside the yoke and frame, and the serial number is partially visible there. I've heard this kind of intentional damage isn't uncommon with these. The number under the barrel is visible, and I don't know about the serial number on the butt because the grip was covering it at the time I was examining it. I presume the butt would also show a serial number of S6803.

I would appreciate any information you can tell me about this revolver.

 

[tenntex32]

I've done some looking around on the internet for details about this family heirloom, and I figured I would turn to the experts here. The gun is not in my possession at the moment so these photos are all I have to offer. It appears to be a D.A.45 (and perhaps a M1917?) chambered in .45ACP. Somebody apparently decided to scratch the inside the yoke and frame, and the serial number is partially visible there. I've heard this kind of intentional damage isn't uncommon with these. The number under the barrel is visible, and I don't know about the serial number on the butt because the grip was covering it at the time I was examining it. I presume the butt would also show a serial number of S6803.

I would appreciate any information you can tell me about this revolver.

S6803 is not the gun's serial number. The "S" in an inspection stamp. The 6803 can be possibly a rack number or most likely a rebuild number applied to the revolver well after manufacture.

Assuming the barrel is original to the gun the serial number should be the "43894" found on the barrel. It looks to be a Model 1917 revolver and the "S" stamp on the barrel would coincide with the 43894 serial number. (Later serial numbered Model 1917 revolvers would have a small numbered Eagle head stamp instead of the "S".)

If you get another chance to look it over the serial number found on the barrel should also be factory applied on the yoke flat directly in front of the cylinder, on the rear face of the cylinder, on the backside of the star extractor, on the butt, and was also written in pencil on the back side of the original r/h grip.

Grips are incorrect and I have no reason as to why the yoke and mating frame area were defaced as it appears to only have the factory assembly numbers and later added rack/rebuild numbers there.(?)

Looks to have been refinished as well and is missing the expected ordnance acceptance and inspection marks found on the left side of the frame.

Somebody made a nice looking shooter out of it though. Will you be able to enjoy shooting it?

HTH,
Dale

 

[Wiregrassguy]

welcome01 to the forums from the Wiregrass! The barrel serial number is in the Model 1917 military gun range and was made in April 1918. You need to verify the SN on the bottom of the grip frame and face of cylinder match. I don't see a United States Property stamp under the barrel that should be there. If you can take it without a flash, post a picture of the end of the ejector rod. The face of the mushroom knob should be polished in the white, not blued. Lots of questions to answer on this one.

 

[Muley Gil]

Welcome to the Forum.

1917s are neat old S&Ws. One was my first Smith back in 1976. Hopefully you will be able to shoot it soon.

When you get the chance to pull the grips, it should have "MODEL OF 1917" and the serial number on the butt.

 

[Departed402]

That gun is currently in the possession of my father. Next time I have a chance to get better photos I will at least know where to look. My father inherited the 1917 from his uncle, who would've been 90-years-old now. I don't know when or where my uncle acquired it, but I believe he said it was the duty gun of a cop, more specifically a Trooper in Arizona if I recall correctly.

 

[Hondo44]

Congrats on a nice historical S&W in your family.

It appears you have a WWI issue Model 1917 Army revolver manuf. in 1917.
However, there's some anomalies we need to sort out to know for sure.

1. the lack of the S&W logo on left side of frame indicates military unless it's on the right side, then it's a commercial issue.

2. The barrel is missing the US Property stamp under the front of the barrel which would support a military issued gun. Until we know if the #43894 is anywhere else on the gun, we can't confirm that it's a coml gun or a replacement barrel, or the stamp is polished off and the barrel reblued.

3. The large upside down S6803 stamped over the serial # on the barrel flat is indicative of a military issue arsenal rebuild #:
"If there’s an extra large stamped # up to 5 digits (sometimes with an R or S) in the yoke, yoke cut out, under the barrel, or all three places, it’s an arsenal # indicating an arsenal rebuilt gun."

This # is what was filed off of both the yoke and in the yoke cutout of the frame (6803 still partially readable), and because there are no original S&W stampings missing from either location.

An example:

Photo credit: Doug4566

How far away does your dad live? That's about all I can tell you but witho more information we can likely figure it out.

 

[Hondo44]

S6803 is not the gun's serial number. The "S" in an inspection stamp. The 6803 can be possibly a rack number or most likely a rebuild number applied to the revolver well after manufacture.
It looks to be a Model 1917 revolver and the "S" stamp on the barrel would coincide with the 43894 serial number.

If you get another chance to look it over the serial number found on the barrel should also be factory applied on the yoke flat directly in front of the cylinder...

....and later added rack/rebuild numbers there.(?)

HTH,
Dale

Dale,
Thx for your input. Just FYI:

Your correct that the S6803 # is a rebuild # but the S is part of it, not a S&W stamp or part of the the serial #.

The serial # was not applied to the yoke cutout flat on the frame in front of the cyl until ~1959. This is one reason why many pre 1959 S&Ws are incorrectly registered by the assembly #s in the yoke cut and on the yoke.

HTH,

 

[tenntex32]

per Hondo44 "Your correct that the S6803 # is a rebuild # but the S is part of it"


Hondo,

The "S" is not part of the serial number and NOT part of the arsenal rebuild number........but rather an inspection/acceptance stamp. It was "supposedly" to stand for "Stewart" of the GHS marking. It is found on all of my earlier original condition non-rebuilt M1917 military examples.

On later s/n M1917 examples it was replaced by the Eagle's Head stamp with a number as well as the upper left frame having the flaming ordnance bomb stamp instead of the GHS.

This is why I am leaning very strongly that this is a true Model of 1917 example that has been rebuilt/refinished/restocked/and possibly had many original markings removed. More info will tell the tale.

The same "S" that is on the barrel flat is also found on the frame (yoke mating area) as well as the rear face of the cylinder on my early s/n GHS marked M1917 examples. The major components requiring inspection/acceptance so to speak.

Supposedly when they stopped marking them with the GHS on the upper left frame and replaced that with the flaming ordnance bomb stamp is when the "S" inspection/acceptance mark on the barrel, frame, and cylinder also was stopped and was replaced with the small Eagle's Head numbered stamp.

Definitely a case of more info needed as we have not seen the serial number on the OP's revolver's butt to know if the barrel is correct to the gun, and what any additional existing markings may possibly tell us. Zooming way way in on the pic of the left side of the frame I think I can see the slight circular remnants where the superimposed GHS marking would have been before refinishing...……..maybe.

And yes, being a collector of S&W Model 1917 and Victory revolvers I have had to correct some local shops doing the paperwork as to the correct serial number being on the butt and not the assembly number found on the frame/yoke mating area. It probably happens way more than people realize due to later era revolvers having the serial number at the frame/yoke area.

HTH,
Dale

 

[Departed402]

Here is an additional photo I didn't originally post because of the 5 picture limit and a lack of markings.
Edit: I don't know why it's posting upside down

 

[tenntex32]

Here is an additional photo I didn't originally post because of the 5 picture limit and a lack of markings.
Edit: I don't know why it's posting upside down

As previously stated the lack of a S&W logo anywhere on either side of the frame is also indicative of a possible military M1917 gun.

A good pic of the butt markings, if still present will also help greatly.

Unusual replacement grips from my vantage point, but others more knowledgeable with different/replacement grip styles will hopefully chime up.

Dale

 

[Hondo44]

Still more photos would be helpful, but at this point it appears to be a straight 1917 military issue.

IIRC there have been barrels observed w/o the US Property stamp.

 

[Jtown]

Much for we new guys to learn. Thanks
Walt

 

[Hawg Rider]

Lanyard Ring Hole in Grip Frame?

If I'm not mistaken, when you remove the wood stocks you should see a lanyard ring hole in the bottom of the grip frame. You may also see "US Army Model 1917", and the serial number ("No. XXXXX") above and below the lanyard ring hole. My 1917 was manufactured mid-1918, and is a hoot to shoot. I use 2, 3, and 6-rd moonclips for the .45 ACP. The old warhorse may even shoot a little better than my much newer Model 25-2!

 

[tenntex32]

Hondo,

Here is a later feature Model 1917 (S/N 99576) exhibiting the flaming ordnance bomb stamp and associated Eagle's head inspection/acceptance stamps. As you can see with this example the numbers with the Eagle's head stamps are all different allowing them to determine who stamped them if need be.

Dale

 

[Hondo44]

Dale,

Thanks very much for the correction! Of course you're absolutely right. I even have it in my notes, I should read them more! And the gun of this thread has a serial # that actually higher than the former reported range of up to ~42000. But we're used to that as more observations are made.

The funny part about the arsenal rebuild # is that it doesn't begin with an S or R like it usually does on the barrel stamp.

Thx again,