DA has no SA - Can it be fixed ?

[SalemCat]

Just bought a sweet S&W .38 DA 2nd Model 4" with the Box.

DA works fine; Barrel like new; Super tight Lockup; Perfect Indexing; All matching numbers; Very little wear overall.

BUT - NO HALF-COCK and NO FULL-COCK. I feel nothing at Half-Cock. At Full-Cock it ALMOST locks - I can feel it trying to.

I figure the Spring right under the Hammer is weak or cracked. Does it have a NAME ?

Is this a difficult or expensive fix ? Can anyone recommend a Smith who has experience, preferably in New England, but anywhere is ok.

Now, as far as Show and Tell goes, check out the Serial Number pencilled inside the top of the Right Grip, and the Patent Dates molded into the Left.

 

[DWalt]

Remove the sideplate and blast the works with spray carb cleaner before making any assumptions.

 

[SalemCat]

Remove the sideplate and blast the works with spray carb cleaner before making any assumptions.

That's a heck of a good idea !

I did try to look inside - the SidePlate Screw is the only part of this Revolver that is messed up. Someone has been inside - or maybe just tried to.

I took a ScrewDriver to it, but it is too tight. I'm going to have to buy a good set of real GunSmith Drivers from Brownell's before I try again.

In the meantime, I did what I usually do to any old gun I get - I squirted in plenty of 3-in-1 Oil - and will let it soak for a week.

This has worked for me in the past on Star Ejector issues. Maybe it will do the trick this time ?

I still need a good Antique GunSmith though, for other guns that need work. Preferably one who can make a nice Checkered Walnut Grip.

 

[mmaher94087]

The Go-To guy for the antique Smith & Wesson's is Dave Chicoine, aka oldwestgunsmith.com If the cleaning doesn't work then see if Dave will fix your Rear Sear problem. Don't forget to take the stocks off as solvent may not like hard rubber. Mike #283

 

[SalemCat]

After careful reading of David Chicione's book on the subject, I am still very confused.

And although I am certain his prices are fair, given his skill, I'm thinking a less-experienced GunSmith may be up to the task.

Just mailing a Handgun to him for evaluation would cost me $10 Shipping to him, $20 Evaluation Fee, $35 Shipping back from him = $65

And that's with no repairs at all.

It 's just not worth pumping another $300 into this. If he's my only alternative I'll just sell it on GB, probably at a loss.

 

[mmaher94087]

Try the cleaning first. Spray or soak and work the action; repeat several times before giving up. If you can get the side plate off then the problem may be obvious. Check the bottom of the Hammer and the Rear Sear engagement. The revolver doesn't appear to have been used/abused; just improper cleaning/storage. Maybe you'll get lucky and it will be dried junk gumming the action. Mike #283

 

[opoefc]

I agree with Mike. Cleaning and repair of these S&Ws is not rocket science. With the side plate off, it should become obvious what is causing the problem when you slowly cycle the action and observe what is working, or not working. If there's a broken spring, etc. then you look for a replacement part and do the repair. Bingo ! You have become your own "less experienced gunsmith" and can hang out your shingle! A low cost fix and your gun knowledge has increased substantially ! Good luck, Ed.

 

[SalemCat]

You guys are on the money.

I just removed the Grips, then the Trigger Guard, and sprayed the hell out of it with Aerosol Brake Cleaner, to no effect.

I know this can work wonders on older, dirty weapons, but I did this on a piece of white paper, and the Brake Cleaner that came out did not even leave a trace of dirt.

I'd so much rather toss a GunSmith $100 to fix it, than begin my next step by sending Brownells $100 just for some decent ScrewDrivers, that I pray I'll never have to use again.

The guy who sold it to me said it was his Great-GrandFathers, and I nearly had to beg to get him to accept my $700.

It's so much better just buying on GB. If it sucks, ship it back. I wasted a lot of energy buying this *** privately.

 

[SalemCat]

Someone suggested I call S&W to see if they do repairs.

I thanked him, but would that not be just a wasted Phone Call ? I can't imagine they fix 1880's weapons.

Do they ?

 

[SalemCat]

I was looking at Numrich, and naturally everything that could be broken, is SOLD OUT

 

[SalemCat]

Ok, I figured out what is wrong.

Directly below the Hammer Pivot is the Rear Sear. In my first pic you can see where it almost is engaging with a notch on the bottom of the hammer.

The reason it is not engaging, is the Rear Sear Spring has insufficient Tension to hold it up. See Part Number 28 in the Schematic. Of course Numrich is sold out.

My 3rd and 4th pics show how the Rear Sear Spring is pinned into place, with a tiny pin, beneath the Grips.

A proper repair, in this case, would be to remove the Rear Sear Spring, and then Heat Treat it properly to re-establish its function as a Spring.

Something well beyond my skill level, sadly.

 

[SalemCat]

This is a duplicate

 

[opoefc]

Salem Cat, I have solved the same problem in the past by inserting a small "shim" between the sear spring and the frame to hold the spring up high enough to function. You may have to do a trial & error exercise until you find the correct thickness of the shim need to support the sear spring . When I get it working OK, I put a very small dab of epoxy on the shim to hold it in place. Granted , this is a "Bubba Fix" until you can find a new rear sear spring, but it works. Ed.

 

[SalemCat]

Salem Cat, I have solved the same problem in the past by inserting a small "shim" between the sear spring and the frame to hold the spring up high enough to function. You may have to do a trial & error exercise until you find the correct thickness of the shim need to support the sear spring . When I get it working OK, I put a very small dab of epoxy on the shim to hold it in place. Granted , this is a "Bubba Fix" until you can find a new rear sear spring, but it works. Ed.

Yeah, I was kinda' thinking the same thing.

Good to know it can work.

I'm never shooting this, so if Dave Chicoine's estimate comes in at a price I'm not comfortable with, I'll try it !

 

[SalemCat]

Hi Ed,

Can you identify the part between #28 and #18.

I can't find it on the Schematic.

When the Trigger Guard is removed, part of it extends outside the Frame, behind the Trigger. Inside it is what holds the Hammer in Half or Full Cock in SA.

 

[SalemCat]

I used this Nail File, from a Dollar Tree, to polish the buggered Hammer Nut Stud. Of course I removed it first, and screwed it onto a spare screw to use as a handle while polishing. It looks much better.

Due to the encouragement from the S&W Community, and their helpful suggestions, for the first time since I received it I'm feeling positive with my latest addition.

And I've learned quite a bit.

 

[mmaher94087]

"Hi Ed,

Can you identify the part between #28 and #18." Watch carefully as Ed's lips never move.. The part number you are inquiring about (in your post) is #27. I've seen other exploded diagrams where the part had a different number (181?). Mike #283

 

[SalemCat]

"Hi Ed,

Can you identify the part between #28 and #18." Watch carefully as Ed's lips never move.. The part number you are inquiring about (in your post) is #27. I've seen other exploded diagrams where the part had a different number (181?). Mike #283

Thanks Mike !

I'm sure you're right.

It sure does not look right, though. Do you know why ? Does the Schematic actually illustrate a #27 from a later Model, maybe ?

 

[mmaher94087]

"Does the Schematic actually illustrate a #27 from a later Model, maybe ?" Precisely. Your revolver is a .38 Double Action, Second Model (Two cylinder stop grooves; recurved Trigger Guard) and the one illustrated is probably a Fourth Model (bowed Trigger Guard; pinned Front Sight). Some Model changes were strictly internal parts differences.

"Someone suggested I call S&W to see if they do repairs." In the past, they referred people to Dave Chicoine. If it's not "Model marked" they won't touch it.

Mike #283

 

[opoefc]

Part # 27 in your diagram is the rear sear. In the S&W parts catalog for the .38 DAs, ( Circa 1900) the S&W catalog part number is 181, as noted by Mike. The rear sear is held in place by the rear sear pin which you see just above the rear of the trigger guard, directly below the hammer stud. There are some differences in the internal parts between a 2nd model, like yours, and the 3rd through 5th models, but they relate to the cylinder stop mechanism, not the rear sear, as I recall. The different part numbers on the schematics available in books and on the internet are usually because the parts houses ( Numrich, etc. ) used the factory diagram but substituted their own part numbers. The horse may be a different color, but it's the same horse. Ed.