Great story. Thank you for sharing it with us.
God Bless your father and all the vets. Without them, we wouldn't be here.
God Bless your father and all the vets. Without them, we wouldn't be here.
Dad's BAR WW II stories
- Thread starter Hondo44
- Start date
Yup!!! A rifle company usally had ~ 16 of them. The LT's and some Sgt's might have a M1 Carbine, or Thompson. The rest of the company carried M1 Garands. A few 1911's in the mix.
For the time awesome fire power!!!
I have often wondered how a WW2 rifle company , would compare with the ones we have today. As far as weopons, and fire power go???
Three rifles that I would love to own. Selective fire: BAR, M14and Thompson. Of couse the Thompson would not be call a rifle.
Guy22
Texas Star
US Veteran
I believe that a WWII platoon also had a Weapons Squad with a .30 caliber MG and maybe a mortar. Don't know who got "bazookas."
OP
Thank you all for the interest and kind comments!
Texas Star,
I don't know about the USAF, but the Marine Corps had a version they called the Stinger on Iwo Jima, Guadalcanal and Green Beach 1 at the base of Mt. Suribachi. The Dauntless dive-bombers used twin 30 Cal. ANM2s with a fire rate of 1350 RPM mounted on the rear seats. (weighing 23 lbs. they resembled a scaled down M1919). The cyclic rate was killer and the voracious appetite for ammo could be fed from either side of the action.
Marines quickly learned to scavenge them from downed and crashed Dauntless SBDs to modify them for field fixed defensive positions. Eventually to make them a little more portable some sported the rear half of M1 Garand stocks and BAR bipods. Good old Yankee ingenuity and Marine improvising!
Texas Star,
I don't know about the USAF, but the Marine Corps had a version they called the Stinger on Iwo Jima, Guadalcanal and Green Beach 1 at the base of Mt. Suribachi. The Dauntless dive-bombers used twin 30 Cal. ANM2s with a fire rate of 1350 RPM mounted on the rear seats. (weighing 23 lbs. they resembled a scaled down M1919). The cyclic rate was killer and the voracious appetite for ammo could be fed from either side of the action.
Marines quickly learned to scavenge them from downed and crashed Dauntless SBDs to modify them for field fixed defensive positions. Eventually to make them a little more portable some sported the rear half of M1 Garand stocks and BAR bipods. Good old Yankee ingenuity and Marine improvising!
Last edited:
BUFF
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
My late uncle Rudy "Huke" Miller was a BAR man in the 63rd Infantry Division in Europe in WWII. He wouldn't talk about the war. At his funeral in 1993, several of his surviving Army buddies told us about some of Uncle Huke's wartime combat experiences. He saw a lot of action and went through a number of BARs, just flat using them up. He wasn't a little man at all, don't know how he got picked to use that weapon.
A friend of mines uncle was in the 88th and died on Mount Battaglia. They found his body in 2007. Article is here Wamego WWII soldier's mystery solved | CJOnline.com
Never saw them taken out for use of any kind. They were just stored in the armory.
OFT II
US Veteran
You guys have to remember that the Air Force lets the officers do the fighting.
Texas Star
US Veteran
In fighters, yes. But not on the ground. During the 1968 North Viet Tet offensive, the Air Police units at Ton Son Nhut Air Base did the bulk of the fighting, and saved the base.
Also, special Combat Air Police units sometimes probed beyond the base to ambush approaching enemy troops. Gun writer Leroy Thompson was among them, although an officer. I think he's a member. If he sees this, maybe he'll elaborate?
I understand that in Agfghanistan and in Iraq, USAF Security Forces were often used to escort convoys in dangerous areas.
Dvan34
Member
Strange, from my experience in the USMC, my recollection is that usually the smallest guys usually ended up carrying BARs.
jmace57
Member
- Joined
- Jul 4, 2012
- Messages
- 2,340
- Reaction score
- 3,785
My Dad (Marvin Mace) was a BAR man in the 76th Infantry Division, 304th Regiment in WW2. He joined as a replacement about 2 weeks after the 76th entered combat in Dec '44 in Luxembourg. He said he was assigned because he was "the new guy" and nobody else wanted to carry it. He was (for the time) a big guy at 5'11" and about 190 pounds.
He also said that the carrying handle and the bipod were immediately removed and thrown away. He said he wore two bandoleers of ammo Pancho Villa style. He hated the weight of the BAR...and the ammo, but carried it until the end of the war.
He said that BAR men usually shot in 2 or 3 round bursts for two reasons:
1) to save the barrel as much as possible
2) primarily because the enemy immediately went after anything they thought was a "machine gun" first.
He told one story about being in a situation where in foggy weather, they ran into foxholes with Germans sleeping in them. They started waking them up - holding their fingers to their lips - and sending them to the rear. The Germans finally twigged to what was happening and popped up from their holes shooting. The Americans realized they were quite outnumbered, and Dad said he started shooting as fast as he could while popping in new magazines and just emptying mag after mag...until the barrel melted. He threw it down and picked up an M1 Garand until the action was over. He said about 2 weeks later the armorers brought him a replacement BAR...and it was exactly the same gun. They had picked it up after the battle and repaired it, and it just so happened to come back to him.
He also said that the carrying handle and the bipod were immediately removed and thrown away. He said he wore two bandoleers of ammo Pancho Villa style. He hated the weight of the BAR...and the ammo, but carried it until the end of the war.
He said that BAR men usually shot in 2 or 3 round bursts for two reasons:
1) to save the barrel as much as possible
2) primarily because the enemy immediately went after anything they thought was a "machine gun" first.
He told one story about being in a situation where in foggy weather, they ran into foxholes with Germans sleeping in them. They started waking them up - holding their fingers to their lips - and sending them to the rear. The Germans finally twigged to what was happening and popped up from their holes shooting. The Americans realized they were quite outnumbered, and Dad said he started shooting as fast as he could while popping in new magazines and just emptying mag after mag...until the barrel melted. He threw it down and picked up an M1 Garand until the action was over. He said about 2 weeks later the armorers brought him a replacement BAR...and it was exactly the same gun. They had picked it up after the battle and repaired it, and it just so happened to come back to him.
If you check out my Avatar you will see I have a lifelong love affair with the Browning Automatic Rifle. Not sure if it isn't the influence of the wise-cracking Kirby on "Combat!" or Steve McQueen in "The Sand Pebbles". This is the original art "The BAR Man" by renowned Marine Corps artist Col.Charles Waterhouse:
Seven High
Member
- Joined
- Jan 11, 2014
- Messages
- 241
- Reaction score
- 156
The USAF had BARs in inventory at the armory at Bitburg AB in the mid sixties. I got the "pleasure" of carrying it numerous times during base alerts. We also had worn out M2 carbines.
PuertoRican
Member
Only fired a BAR once. They put a plastic barrel over the side to shoot at.
"Come Chief, you can do it!"
Touched the trigger and was pushed back, barrel was up in the air, the Gunner's Mate was behind me holding me up!
Guys thought that was funny.
"Come Chief, you can do it!"
Touched the trigger and was pushed back, barrel was up in the air, the Gunner's Mate was behind me holding me up!
Guys thought that was funny.
OP
PART II
Thank you all for the kind comments for my dad.
P.S. Dad was 5' 10" and was assigned the BAR, go figure. Maybe he was the shortest in his squad.
At one point, my dad received a leg wound*. After a stay in the hospital he was redeployed to the front. For some reason only the army could explain (most likely the demands of war at that moment), he was assigned to another unit as a radioman. He was also given an M1 carbine, much lighter than a BAR but almost impossible to sling on a shoulder when you already had a backpack radio hanging from your shoulders. And he rarely got to use it. He asked the quartermaster for a 1911 Auto pistol instead. Nope, it wasn't 'regulation'.
At first he thought he wouldn't have the "target on his chest" like when carrying the BAR. But he soon found out different. As the radio man he was generally right next to an officer. He did get a lot of jeep rides but he found that officers were targets as well!
He was usually kneeling down to operate the radio, sometimes in foul weather he was under his poncho, also at night so the lights on the radio dial didn't draw enemy fire. On two different occasions his Captain and a Lieutenant were killed right over his head. Until a Corpsman (medic) arrived, he was administering first aid, after removing the Captain's pistol belt and opening his coat.
The medics spirited the mortally wounded Captain away on a stretcher and there on the ground lay his belt and holstered 1911 auto. You guessed it, an M1 Carbine quickly replaced it. Later in another firefight the Lieutenant was killed; that was the one that gave my dad nightmares for years. He never forgot having the Lieutenant's brains splattered all over him.
A much less grisly memory was pulling guard duty one night at the recently re-captured Berretta Factory in a mid-winter snow storm. He and another squad member took refuge in a warehouse, also not to be a sitting duck for a German's bullet. They kept vigil thru shell holes in the building.
At one point they covered up to light a smoke crouched down near a packing crate and got curious about what was in it. A quick investigation revealed boxes, each filled with two dozen brand new Berretta 380 pistols. It just so happens that when they were relieved in the morning, the warehouse inventory was short two dozen pistols. They were happy to have the large pockets in their army trench coats, etc. Needless to say, they lived like king's for the next couple of weeks with such desirable "trade goods". When shipped back to the states, many GIs were flown home in stripped out B17s sitting on the floor, a most miserable flight, but completely overlooked because the ride home was accepted with glee! Each GI was limited to one small ditty bag. His had his shaving kit, a change of skivvies and souvenirs, i.e., a 380 Berretta, a Luger, a Norwegian 1911 45 auto, and a Mauser 9mm Broom handle.
The broom handle had its own story: in a small Italian town that dad's outfit was re-occupying, he was leading a squad armed with a Garand. His #2 man carried a Thompson. They snuck into a building and found a German Colonel feverishly burning classified documents (presumably) in a barrel. He made it known in broken English, he wanted an officer to surrender to, not my dad, a sergeant, who turned to his #2 with the Tommy gun and said, "If he doesn't give me his sidearm right now, shoot him!" Quickly, off came the pistol belt with the beautiful broom handle, not just any Mauser, but one with Persian stamps. Not until years later did dad fully appreciate its rarity and later collector value.
Just a note, I'm the oldest of his sons and was almost retired before any of these WW II anecdotes were shared with me. We lost him within 10 years after that.
* One bronze star came to the house in the 1970s; the other one and the purple heart showed up in the late 1980s.
Thank you all for the kind comments for my dad.
P.S. Dad was 5' 10" and was assigned the BAR, go figure. Maybe he was the shortest in his squad.
At one point, my dad received a leg wound*. After a stay in the hospital he was redeployed to the front. For some reason only the army could explain (most likely the demands of war at that moment), he was assigned to another unit as a radioman. He was also given an M1 carbine, much lighter than a BAR but almost impossible to sling on a shoulder when you already had a backpack radio hanging from your shoulders. And he rarely got to use it. He asked the quartermaster for a 1911 Auto pistol instead. Nope, it wasn't 'regulation'.
At first he thought he wouldn't have the "target on his chest" like when carrying the BAR. But he soon found out different. As the radio man he was generally right next to an officer. He did get a lot of jeep rides but he found that officers were targets as well!
He was usually kneeling down to operate the radio, sometimes in foul weather he was under his poncho, also at night so the lights on the radio dial didn't draw enemy fire. On two different occasions his Captain and a Lieutenant were killed right over his head. Until a Corpsman (medic) arrived, he was administering first aid, after removing the Captain's pistol belt and opening his coat.
The medics spirited the mortally wounded Captain away on a stretcher and there on the ground lay his belt and holstered 1911 auto. You guessed it, an M1 Carbine quickly replaced it. Later in another firefight the Lieutenant was killed; that was the one that gave my dad nightmares for years. He never forgot having the Lieutenant's brains splattered all over him.
A much less grisly memory was pulling guard duty one night at the recently re-captured Berretta Factory in a mid-winter snow storm. He and another squad member took refuge in a warehouse, also not to be a sitting duck for a German's bullet. They kept vigil thru shell holes in the building.
At one point they covered up to light a smoke crouched down near a packing crate and got curious about what was in it. A quick investigation revealed boxes, each filled with two dozen brand new Berretta 380 pistols. It just so happens that when they were relieved in the morning, the warehouse inventory was short two dozen pistols. They were happy to have the large pockets in their army trench coats, etc. Needless to say, they lived like king's for the next couple of weeks with such desirable "trade goods". When shipped back to the states, many GIs were flown home in stripped out B17s sitting on the floor, a most miserable flight, but completely overlooked because the ride home was accepted with glee! Each GI was limited to one small ditty bag. His had his shaving kit, a change of skivvies and souvenirs, i.e., a 380 Berretta, a Luger, a Norwegian 1911 45 auto, and a Mauser 9mm Broom handle.
The broom handle had its own story: in a small Italian town that dad's outfit was re-occupying, he was leading a squad armed with a Garand. His #2 man carried a Thompson. They snuck into a building and found a German Colonel feverishly burning classified documents (presumably) in a barrel. He made it known in broken English, he wanted an officer to surrender to, not my dad, a sergeant, who turned to his #2 with the Tommy gun and said, "If he doesn't give me his sidearm right now, shoot him!" Quickly, off came the pistol belt with the beautiful broom handle, not just any Mauser, but one with Persian stamps. Not until years later did dad fully appreciate its rarity and later collector value.
Just a note, I'm the oldest of his sons and was almost retired before any of these WW II anecdotes were shared with me. We lost him within 10 years after that.
* One bronze star came to the house in the 1970s; the other one and the purple heart showed up in the late 1980s.
Last edited:
Frank46
US Veteran
Very much enjoyed your telling how Dad served during WWII. Please document what you know. Too many vets don't want to talk about their experiences and when they finally open up it's usually too late. These men did what they had to do to survive and their experiences should not be forgotten. I was a supervisor where I worked, my general foreman was a WWII vet who serviced in tanks. And that was about all I knew about his service. He had to take an early medical retirement due to injuries he suffered during the war. After I retired I received a small book he had written about what he did and where he served. Couldn't put the book down till I finished reading it. Thanks for sharing your dad's wartime experiences. Frank
That's interesting that smaller guys were issued the BAR. My father in law's dad was a BAR man in the pacific during WWII and I asked if he was a big guy and my FIL said "no, but he was tough!". He was a barber from Ohio and told stories of when the Japanese did a Bonzai attack he would stand there with a guy on each side feeding him magazines and mowing them down. He hated the Japs the rest of his life and my Father in Law hated them just from the stories told by his dad.
Richard Simmons
Member
The only experience I have with the BAR is my OOW 1918A3 semi-auto which wonderful. What I've heard and what makes sense to me is that the BAR was issued to every fifth man. In the military you line up tallest to shortest. If each rank/row has five men that fifth man got the BAR.
He's going to be the shortest man in that row. Just how short depends on how tall the others are. Makes perfect sense to me.
He's going to be the shortest man in that row. Just how short depends on how tall the others are. Makes perfect sense to me.
Similar threads
